Swastika on bonnet = trouble

[Sourbastard]

Unfortunately sports fans, everyone has the right to express themselves.

Its also unfortunate that the ignorant and fearful are the loudest at these events.

My grandfather served in the fascist Italian navy and spent his career blowing up English ships in Gibralta, I have a great uncle who was a U-Boat Captain and received the Iron Cross from Hitler Himself.

My other grandfather served in the British Airborne at Normandy, Europe, Palestine, then Korea. I also have two Jewish Great Aunts.

So which side do I support? The Taiwanese!

Threatening to kick crap out of someone flying a piece of material(Symbolic or otherwise) makes someone just as ignorant as the person they are beating.

You cant beat ignorance through violence, it just reinforces their beliefs and paranoia.

If they wake up circumcised and wearing a yammuhka though, that often spins em out.

In Summary, Australia says no to violence against bogans by other bogans with differing beliefs.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Lol. Free speech - love it when it goes your way, hate it when it doesnt huh?

To suggest it was a representation of buddhist beliefs is 'drawing a long string' to this particular bow IMO.

Would a buddhist (who is seeking enlightenment and is tought that MATERIAL POSSESSIONS are the root of many of the world's problems) be driving a Eunos? Possible... but unlikely.

Which suggests to me that it's more lilkely to be an attempt at displaying a sign of hatred, scapegoating and all those other things we associate with the third reich.

IMO there is no place for this in our society. We are free here to cry 'fire' in a crowded theatre but does not mean that we should respect individuals who chose to do so.

Whilst a graphic that symbolises nazi principles may not be explicitly illegal here in Australia... it should be. Play the "freedom" card all you want - we KNOW what the symbol means - we know what those who display it mean.

NAZI PUNKS F. OFF!

A section of white supremacists at the Cronulla riots thought they could hijack the Eureka Stockade flag too. It seems these right wing wackos do not have one original thought in their miniscule brains.

They wouldnt be the first. Well known australian-based white suprecmicists have symbolised their "patriotism" (read: hatred for other nationalities, partciular those of oriental descent) with the eureka flag for many years. Much to the bane of the unions who (legitimately) see it as a symbol of solidarity and collectivism (and thankfully this is what most people associate the flag with). But im sure there are many here who can confirm that they've seen the flag used in the context of white supremacy.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Lol. Free speech - love it when it goes your way, hate it when it doesnt huh?

To suggest it was a representation of buddhist beliefs is 'drawing a long string' to this particular bow IMO.

Would a buddhist (who is seeking enlightenment and is tought that MATERIAL POSSESSIONS are the root of many of the world's problems) be driving a Eunos? Possible... but unlikely.

Which suggests to me that it's more lilkely to be an attempt at displaying a sign of hatred, scapegoating and all those other things we associate with the third reich.

IMO there is no place for this in our society. We are free here to cry 'fire' in a crowded theatre but does not mean that we should respect individuals who chose to do so.

Whilst a graphic that symbolises nazi principles may not be explicitly illegal here in Australia... it should be. Play the "freedom" card all you want - we KNOW what the symbol means - we know what those who display it mean.

NAZI PUNKS F. OFF!



They wouldnt be the first. Well known australian-based white suprecmicists have symbolised their "patriotism" (read: hatred for other nationalities, partciular those of oriental descent) with the eureka flag for many years. Much to the bane of the unions who (legitimately) see it as a symbol of solidarity and collectivism (and thankfully this is what most people associate the flag with). But im sure there are many here who can confirm that they've seen the flag used in the context of white supremacy.

Extremist views are extremist for a reason, they are held by those who already have a twisted sense of reality, lack reason, are powered by fear and a belief of persecute before they themselves are persecuted.

You cant beat fear out of someone, you can only reinforce it. You cant negotiate with the paranoid.

You may believe there is no place in society for it, but you may not realize they are already a part of our society and their views which are based in basic tribalism have been around since Noah first put nail to plank.

Find an area of society where prejudiced behaviour does not exist in some form, and you will have performed a miracle.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Extremist views are extremist for a reason, they are held by those who already have a twisted sense of reality, lack reason, are powered by fear and a belief of persecute before they themselves are persecuted.

You cant beat fear out of someone, you can only reinforce it. You cant negotiate with the paranoid.

You may believe there is no place in society for it, but you may not realize they are already a part of our society and their views which are based in basic tribalism have been around since Noah first put nail to plank.

Find an area of society where prejudiced behaviour does not exist in some form, and you will have performed a miracle.

So very well put dave. For the sake of clarity, i should note that i'd never advocate a violent stance against such extremists.

The display of this particular symbol simply solidifies my opinion that these people are cowards. And for reference - thumping someone half their size (me, for example) does not alleviate the perception of cowardice.

But cowards in the fact that - they know they cant act out their racist fantasies without fear of legal retribution, so they leave us to "read between the lines"... with a certain level of ambiguity. A loophole, if you could call it that.

But to simply accept such people as being part of society (the so-called rich tapestry) is the easy way out. To accept such things equates to advocacy in my opinion.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Lol. Free speech - love it when it goes your way, hate it when it doesnt huh?

To suggest it was a representation of buddhist beliefs is 'drawing a long string' to this particular bow IMO.

Would a buddhist (who is seeking enlightenment and is tought that MATERIAL POSSESSIONS are the root of many of the world's problems) be driving a Eunos? Possible... but unlikely.

Which suggests to me that it's more lilkely to be an attempt at displaying a sign of hatred, scapegoating and all those other things we associate with the third reich.

IMO there is no place for this in our society. We are free here to cry 'fire' in a crowded theatre but does not mean that we should respect individuals who chose to do so.

Whilst a graphic that symbolises nazi principles may not be explicitly illegal here in Australia... it should be. Play the "freedom" card all you want - we KNOW what the symbol means - we know what those who display it mean.

NAZI PUNKS F. OFF!



They wouldnt be the first. Well known australian-based white suprecmicists have symbolised their "patriotism" (read: hatred for other nationalities, partciular those of oriental descent) with the eureka flag for many years. Much to the bane of the unions who (legitimately) see it as a symbol of solidarity and collectivism (and thankfully this is what most people associate the flag with). But im sure there are many here who can confirm that they've seen the flag used in the context of white supremacy.

Nice high ground you are on there.

The Nazis attempted to wipe out an entire people but failed where as we, "Australians" actually succeeded or have you seen any Tasmanian Aboriginals lately.

We, "Australians" had a "white australia policy" long after the Nazis were defeated and it is not 100 years since we had slavery here.

Learning from your mistakes is a sign of growing maturity. I hope that we "Australians" are a bit further down the path now....

What you have stated is in no way different from the statements made by our little fundamentalist buddies up north. Intollerence and xenophopia are blind.

Think about it.........

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by flappist

Nice high ground you are on there.

Thanks. Really no need to be "like that".. but anyways.

The Nazis attempted to wipe out an entire people but failed where as we, "Australians" actually succeeded or have you seen any Tasmanian Aboriginals lately.

We, "Australians" had a "white australia policy" long after the Nazis were defeated and it is not 100 years since we had slavery here.

Learning from your mistakes is a sign of growing maturity. I hope that we "Australians" are a bit further down the path now....

What you have stated is in no way different from the statements made by our little fundamentalist buddies up north. Intollerence and xenophopia are blind.

Think about it.........

It's an interesting parallel you draw there. I must confess that my knowledge of indigenous australia could be considered lower than average (a victim 1980's primary school education perhaps). Certainly little more than a drop when compared to fountain of information you seem to have on the topic.

Whilst your message is not lost on me - its worth noting that im not one of the many australians who believes that the current generation owes indigenous australians an apology for (undoubtedly) poor behaviour from past generations.

If you are suggesting that - because of the actions taken by settlers and politicians alike (decades before my parents migrated to this country BTW), that there is some parallel between my heritage and what i speak out against here, i'd argue that both the intent and the execution have little in common. In effect - i'd be claiming its a false analogy.

Just because a phrase like "Intollerence and xenophopia are blind" reads nicely on the page - it does not make it a statement of fact. I'd encourage any reader of this thread not to be taken in by such 'catchy' phrases.

If you are seriously suggesting that I should "accept" white supremicists in the interests of tolerance, i'll simply make a quip about irony and bid you a fine day and a pleasant weekend.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend. Unless you wish to take the high ground yourself?

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

So which side do I support? The Taiwanese!

I;m Taiwanese and I can't see the relation to WWII and Nazism.....unless youre talking about the situation with China??

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Thanks. Really no need to be "like that".. but anyways.



It's an interesting parallel you draw there. I must confess that my knowledge of indigenous australia could be considered lower than average (a victim 1980's primary school education perhaps). Certainly little more than a drop when compared to fountain of information you seem to have on the topic.

Whilst your message is not lost on me - its worth noting that im not one of the many australians who believes that the current generation owes indigenous australians an apology for (undoubtedly) poor behaviour from past generations.

If you are suggesting that - because of the actions taken by settlers and politicians alike (decades before my parents migrated to this country BTW), that there is some parallel between my heritage and what i speak out against here, i'd argue that both the intent and the execution have little in common. In effect - i'd be claiming its a false analogy.

Just because a phrase like "Intollerence and xenophopia are blind" reads nicely on the page - it does not make it a statement of fact. I'd encourage any reader of this thread not to be taken in by such 'catchy' phrases.

If you are seriously suggesting that I should "accept" white supremicists in the interests of tolerance, i'll simply make a quip about irony and bid you a fine day and a pleasant weekend.

We may have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend. Unless you wish to take the high ground yourself?

No I am not taking the high ground, I personally do not like intollerent people either.

The point I am making is that "hate slogans" and threat of violence against them is exactly what they do.

The attitude that it is ok for us to do this is because we are right and they are wrong is also invalid because as far as "they" are concerned they are right are "we" are wrong.

I have no right to tell you what to believe or how to live your life. This is supposed to be a FREE country.
When all freedoms are dictated by "political correctness" and dogma then we are no longer a FREE country and become a totalitarian dictatorship.
It is all about the attitude of the people.

This has nothing to do with democracy, remember Hitler (the one that the symbol represents) was elected.....

[4.9 EF Futura]

I have no problem with what you're saying there, flappist.

The concept of freedom is indeed an interesting one. At what point does my freedom to oppose white supremicists infringe upon their right to be racist? At what point does their freedom to be racist infringe upon a non-white persion?

It's about as defineable as 'right and wrong'. Although with 'right and wrong' we have guidance from existing legislative frameworks - the previously mentioned "reasonable person" test. I'd argue that nazi beliefs are probably outside of what a "reasonable person" would consider appropriate behaviour. If that makes me narrow minded, then call me narrow minded and i'll wear that label.

Lol... if the nazi punks comment was noteable, i should confess that it was merely a regurgitation of an old Dead Kennedy's line.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Homer1

I;m Taiwanese and I can't see the relation to WWII and Nazism.....unless youre talking about the situation with China??

My point is that Taiwan had absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue.

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

But to simply accept such people as being part of society (the so-called rich tapestry) is the easy way out. To accept such things equates to advocacy in my opinion.

Actually ignoring the ignorant, who always demand recognition and attention, is one of the fundamental ways to erradicate the behaviour.

If everytime they committed a crime, it was dealt with by the police and got no media attention, how long would a cause with no voice last?

Originally Posted by flappist

I have no right to tell you what to believe or how to live your life. This is supposed to be a FREE country.
When all freedoms are dictated by "political correctness" and dogma then we are no longer a FREE country and become a totalitarian dictatorship.
It is all about the attitude of the people.

This has nothing to do with democracy, remember Hitler (the one that the symbol represents) was elected.....

Convince a populace they arent responsible for their own failures, and its easy to get elected. The power of the Media, shown for all to see.

I think its easy to see how media attention drives our countries policy makers. There are no hard decisions, just ones that the mob will be placated with until they realize its not in their best advantage.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

the previously mentioned "reasonable person" test. I'd argue that nazi beliefs are probably outside of what a "reasonable person" would consider appropriate behaviour. If that makes me narrow minded, then call me narrow minded and i'll wear that label.

Germany in 1936 was full of reasonable people, hard working with strong ethics and well educated. Right and Wrong, Truth and Lie are not absolute. They are relative to your viewpoint. And thats really the issue I think.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

I have no problem with what you're saying there, flappist.

The concept of freedom is indeed an interesting one. At what point does my freedom to oppose white supremicists infringe upon their right to be racist? At what point does their freedom to be racist infringe upon a non-white persion?

It's about as defineable as 'right and wrong'. Although with 'right and wrong' we have guidance from existing legislative frameworks - the previously mentioned "reasonable person" test. I'd argue that nazi beliefs are probably outside of what a "reasonable person" would consider appropriate behaviour. If that makes me narrow minded, then call me narrow minded and i'll wear that label.

Lol... if the nazi punks comment was noteable, i should confess that it was merely a regurgitation of an old Dead Kennedy's line.

The problem in that if the statement that "Nazism and eveything to do with it is bad and should be opposed" is an absolute truth then the following are all wrong and should be opposed also.

1) National parks and wilderness reserves, an original Nazi policy.
2) National road system (autobahns).
3) A national welfare system for the old and infirm.
4) Ban on private possession of firearms.
5) Unemployment benefits and government subsidised job/workplace training.

All of these things and many more were first introduced by Adolf Hitler and his Nazi thugs. The VW Beetle was the first car that ordinary people could afford, guess who sponsored that.

So for all the bad there was at least a little good (except for the gun bit maybe).

At this time USA was jailing people for drinking alcohol and we killed off the last Tasmanian Tiger.

History is a very good thing to learn from.....

[fordfuntastic]

Whats the big hassle about a swatstika? Arnt we all victims??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????

[Sourbastard]

In Nazi Germany they castrated the retarded.... a policy I agree with more every day in here.

[fordfuntastic]

I agree they should Kastrate ALL retards and Convicts that are forgotten! 1787 the year of retards.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by fordfuntastic

I agree they should Kastrate ALL retards and Convicts that are forgotten!

Glad you agree. Just step up to the tiny guillotine.

[fordfuntastic]

So whats a Guyatine or whatever you say is it a condom??????

[Sourbastard]

same effect

[fordfuntastic]

Bloody hell its the new mellenium !

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by fordfuntastic

So whats a Guyatine or whatever you say is it a condom??????

:

[fordfuntastic]

LOL a cat with a machine gun! LONG LIVE OSBL

[Casper]

Originally Posted by fordfuntastic

So whats a Guyatine or whatever you say is it a condom??????

I guess it could be called a "french tickler" :togo: