How many of you are in a job with loads of responsibility but..

old_mate · 14-06-2006, 08:52 PM

...dont get paid for it?

I work with a airline. I am a 4th year apprentice aircraft maintenance engineer, who makes real good money considering im an apprentice. In 2 weeks im moving back to Brisbane for the job, taking a 20% pay cut due no shift penalties. I only just then found out the exact money i'll be on once i have my trade cert. and its nothing too flash at 19/hr. There soon will be an overtime bank (you only get paid normal rate for working extra and then get the other hour into a bank, which if there isnt much work on the company can force you to take this leave with 24 hrs notice). Dunno about others, but im really down about the fact i have had to work pretty hard, have had to do a fair but of study and now im going to earn only 40k a year. Energy Australia have offered us (once we have our aircraft trade) a further 2 years of apprenticeship (at 40k a year) to become qualified elec. mechanics/fitters. Thats with the A grade license and data/communications. Only thing is, they offer this in sydney

Reason why im leaving Sydney is purely i want property. And i dont want to borrow 600k when 300k up north will be plenty. Besides, earning 100k but having to pay off twice the amount in mortgage defeats the purpose IMO.

Any thoughts/suggestions? it s me no end, when I have been told about a couple of insurance companies offering more $$$ to someone with a bit of car nouse to train up as an underwriter (thats a 70k plus job im told) no exp. necessary.

Sorry for the rant.

Outbackjack · 14-06-2006, 09:04 PM

This kind of situation will only get worse in Johnies new workers paradise, island OZ.

MickyB · 14-06-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

This kind of situation will only get worse in Johnies new workers paradise, island OZ.

Do you add something about the IR reforms in every job thread on the forums? It's already been done to death in other threads, why not give it a rest.

As for the original thread, sure the property might cost more, but it's not like it would be a depreciating asset, you would be worth more in the end, and earning better money to boot.
If I were you, I would stay in Sydney, get the best qualifications that you can, then decide where you want to live. 2 years isn't a long time in the overall scheme of things.

Outbackjack · 14-06-2006, 09:30 PM

I agree, it has been done to death. But we must not become complacent(SP?) If we do we will ALL be working for peanuts. Sorry if my abhorence of the new IR laws is boring others. But we still have freedom of speach dont we??? Or is that next to go??

XR8 Uterous · 14-06-2006, 09:35 PM

Personally I'd do the extra training... yes it may defeat the purpose when you want to buy property but in 10 years time the extra training will be very beneficial for you.

Philbie · 14-06-2006, 09:43 PM

try owning your own business -

Wokkas · 14-06-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

This kind of situation will only get worse in Johnies new workers paradise, island OZ.

I strongly dissagree mate.

With the current skills and trade shortages in this country, us tradies will never be subject to these "evil" IR laws the unions keep telling us about.

old_mate is probably under a workplace agreement. An act that has been around for many a year, and is usually in place in big companys (which old_mate probably works for) to protect themselves and make things simpler, and of course to save a dollar.

As a Fitter and machinist myself old_mate, I can almost definatley tell you that it is not your trade screwing you around, but your employer. If you work for a foreign owned airline or similar, all your ever going to be is a number in a book. And naturally the company is going to make that "number" as cheap for them as they can.

Like I say to all lads like you. Finish your trade, and then make a decision. There are many doors of oportunity for your trade. You'll find that you could slip into jobs slightly different, like deisel mechanic, fitter, automotive mechanic, etc etc.

Mate, take your trade up to the mines, and you'll be earning more in a week, than what your are now earning in a quarter, and your bosses will be kissing the soles of your feet.

Taking the extra training, for the extra $$$ isn't necessarily always the best option.

parawolf · 14-06-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_mate

... Energy Australia have offered us (once we have our aircraft trade) a further 2 years of apprenticeship (at 40k a year) to become qualified elec. mechanics/fitters. Thats with the A grade license and data/communications. Only thing is, they offer this in sydney

So once you finish your current trade, you can either take a $40k job in Sydney at your current cost of living, or a $40k job in Brisbane which you know the terms of employment are not the greatest. But the $40k job in Sydney has room for future growth through proactive training efforts.

So at the end of 2 years while you might have a few extra thou in the year thanks to a potential of a lower cost of living in Brisbane vs Sydney, but in Sydney you will have a second qualification and a higher paid job.

At a higher wage you will pay more tax, you could then purchase that property in Brisbane as an investment property and have it negatively geared for a tax break. But thats investment and financial advice from someone that isn't qualified to give it. :newangel:

Personally I see the benefit of staying Sydney for the extra training to make you a more versatile employee.

Scott · 14-06-2006, 10:01 PM

Aircraft Maintenance Engineer on your resume will see you earning good $$ anywhere in the country. Having a qualification as unique and "perfection dependant" as that will hold you in good stead for many jobs, both on and off the tools. The Electrical Apprenticeship seems like a good offer however I'd be inclined to continue working with Aircraft and devoting energy to a Diploma in Business Management. That combined with your AME ticket sets you up for a plethora of opportunity in fields/positions you probably would have never otherwise considered. Be smart and big $$$ will come your way, the rest of the world put's a lot of faith in AME's!

You could approach a company like UTC (owns Pratt & Whitney, Sikorsky etc) for a job as they will also fully fund any degree you wish to pursue whilst also allowing you additional leave (2 weeks) for study.

MO · 14-06-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_mate

...dont get paid for it?

I work with a airline. I am a 4th year apprentice aircraft maintenance engineer, who makes real good money considering im an apprentice. In 2 weeks im moving back to Brisbane for the job, taking a 20% pay cut due no shift penalties. I only just then found out the exact money i'll be on once i have my trade cert. and its nothing too flash at 19/hr. There soon will be an overtime bank (you only get paid normal rate for working extra and then get the other hour into a bank, which if there isnt much work on the company can force you to take this leave with 24 hrs notice). Dunno about others, but im really down about the fact i have had to work pretty hard, have had to do a fair but of study and now im going to earn only 40k a year. Energy Australia have offered us (once we have our aircraft trade) a further 2 years of apprenticeship (at 40k a year) to become qualified elec. mechanics/fitters. Thats with the A grade license and data/communications. Only thing is, they offer this in sydney

Reason why im leaving Sydney is purely i want property. And i dont want to borrow 600k when 300k up north will be plenty. Besides, earning 100k but having to pay off twice the amount in mortgage defeats the purpose IMO.

Any thoughts/suggestions? it s me no end, when I have been told about a couple of insurance companies offering more $$$ to someone with a bit of car nouse to train up as an underwriter (thats a 70k plus job im told) no exp. necessary.

Sorry for the rant.

OK two questions...1.who do you work for....

2.what are you rated/liscenced on so far

Suggestion if you have heavy twin/jet look at National Jet.

You might even look at Air North in Darwin 4/5 yr apps are on 50k+

old_mate · 14-06-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

This kind of situation will only get worse in Johnies new workers paradise, island OZ.

Lets not get started on this. It has been said by another that us 'tradies' are relatively free from the new IR laws, however we are up for EBA negotiations shortly...lots and lots of people are advising me to stock up on the vaseline. Will wait and see.

Staying in Sydney means shift loading of say, 28%. Thats under this current EBA. So they pay still is not spectacular, but noticeably better. Job security anywhere in this country within the Aviation Trade simply doesnt exist. It can, and always will, be done cheaper in Asia

I realise the trade looks good, hence Energy Australias enthusiasm to recruit as many recently redundant dudes as possible. Im actually going to enquire thru the Queensland TAFE about gaining big RPL, however i'll be doing it off my own bat (the NSW and QLD TAFE systems are different) trying to lobby my way around it. I know there is massive shortage of sparkies around the country, more and more it looks like i'll have to pursue something. Thing is, I love fixing planes. Everything from changing lightbulbs to calling engine runs, its awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wokkas

As a Fitter and machinist myself old_mate, I can almost definatley tell you that it is not your trade screwing you around, but your employer. If you work for a foreign owned airline or similar, all your ever going to be is a number in a book. And naturally the company is going to make that "number" as cheap for them as they can.

Agreed. Our CEO freely admits our skilled labour in this country in his opinion is overpaid. We should all be hired from Labour hire groups cheaply, and let one poor soul sign his life away on it.

And John McMaster, you should have sussed out by now who i work for. Unfortunately im only a 4th year apprentice, im getting thru my basic AME licensing exams but for a sparky there is 24 or something (Inclusive of Core, electrical, instrument and radio) so have no real licenses. Im thinking about maybe riding out the time to get the qualification, while in the meantime chasing up Queensland TAFE for the credits. Otherwise, it'll be a move back to Sydney (lovely missus is from Sydney, as long as its east coast she is fine)

Scott · 15-06-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_mate

I know there is massive shortage of sparkies around the country, more and more it looks like i'll have to pursue something.

I think the issue is that there is a shortage of sparkies (& other trades) where the latest boom is, not Australia wide as is being trumpeted by companies keen to import their labour for lesser $/hr. If the East Coast boom dies and Perth sparks up, all of a sudden Perth builders are screaming for tradies whilst Sydney builders are laying them off.

**ebxr8240** · 15-06-2006, 12:49 AM

If you work for E/A n no time you'll have a vehicle to take home..PLENTY of overtime as a fitter / opperator etc... You can get nice houses in outer Sydney for $350K....

MO · 15-06-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_mate

Lets not get started on this. It has been said by another that us 'tradies' are relatively free from the new IR laws, however we are up for EBA negotiations shortly...lots and lots of people are advising me to stock up on the vaseline. Will wait and see.

Staying in Sydney means shift loading of say, 28%. Thats under this current EBA. So they pay still is not spectacular, but noticeably better. Job security anywhere in this country within the Aviation Trade simply doesnt exist. It can, and always will, be done cheaper in Asia

I realise the trade looks good, hence Energy Australias enthusiasm to recruit as many recently redundant dudes as possible. Im actually going to enquire thru the Queensland TAFE about gaining big RPL, however i'll be doing it off my own bat (the NSW and QLD TAFE systems are different) trying to lobby my way around it. I know there is massive shortage of sparkies around the country, more and more it looks like i'll have to pursue something. Thing is, I love fixing planes. Everything from changing lightbulbs to calling engine runs, its awesome.

Agreed. Our CEO freely admits our skilled labour in this country in his opinion is overpaid. We should all be hired from Labour hire groups cheaply, and let one poor soul sign his life away on it.

And John McMaster, you should have sussed out by now who i work for. Unfortunately im only a 4th year apprentice, im getting thru my basic AME licensing exams but for a sparky there is 24 or something (Inclusive of Core, electrical, instrument and radio) so have no real licenses. Im thinking about maybe riding out the time to get the qualification, while in the meantime chasing up Queensland TAFE for the credits. Otherwise, it'll be a move back to Sydney (lovely missus is from Sydney, as long as its east coast she is fine)

Yes I did sus early....the big red has a lot to answer for.

svo347 · 15-06-2006, 10:34 PM

I wish i had responsibillities.
Just restarted in construction, well im on $120K p.a. and im welding polypipe.
Im lucky to do 5 welds perday and its deadset boring....

old_mate · 15-06-2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo347

I wish i had responsibillities.
Just restarted in construction, well im on $120K p.a. and im welding polypipe.
Im lucky to do 5 welds perday and its deadset boring....

How do i get your job lol?

svo347 · 15-06-2006, 11:40 PM

Spend $250 odd in a poly welding course then off you go.
Alot of companies send polywelders overseas to do work, theres good money in it.

EB Pete · 15-06-2006, 11:48 PM

i'm a 3rd yeah electrician in QLD and have been told that the QLD electrical license is the highest in Aus. electricians from victoria come up here and are only classed as 2nd/3rd year app. i'm not sure about NSW but i'de check to see if your electrical license would be accepted in QLD. as for the 24 'test' there are 24 models that you have to pass by 50% and a final test that is apparently very hard. tafe 1st year - 8 weeks 2nd year - 8 weeks 3rd year - 6 weeks 4th yeah - 2 weeks.

LTDHO · 16-06-2006, 08:35 AM

To answer your question. Yes.

like most I don't get paid enough, I have save the business 100,000's and don't get a cent more. No it's not my job to either!

Gambit · 16-06-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wokkas

Like I say to all lads like you. Finish your trade, and then make a decision. There are many doors of oportunity for your trade. You'll find that you could slip into jobs slightly different, like deisel mechanic, fitter, automotive mechanic, etc etc.

Mate, take your trade up to the mines, and you'll be earning more in a week, than what your are now earning in a quarter, and your bosses will be kissing the soles of your feet.

The hunter valley is always looking for people in the mining industry. Also the housing isn't the price of Sydney either (depending where you go).

Miss_XR6 · 16-06-2006, 12:17 PM

not all jobs are covered under the IR policies im glad my job isnt get a pay rise this october than another in Jan woohoo!!!! u gotta find the right company if u want pay but also enjoy it

gtfpv · 16-06-2006, 05:37 PM

mate some of us long timers in trades , know the go . it isn't study . i have a friend who has 20 years at tafe and a wealth of certificates . latest is adanced electrical diploma. he cant get a job as a manager without taking a pay cut.
the trick is getting into an industry that australia relies on. ie . raw materials .and or essential services. the airlines for example are dirt cheap and running for minimal profit . the money goes to oil companies, the airport, the tax( government ) the business investors who outlay billions , and need big returns. and marketers etc . . until a plane falls out of the sky in australia . $$$ arent going to go to aircraft engineers.
i have been at both ends of the stick . high tolerance design machining, and fabrication work . that pays ok . to swinging a sledgehammer for 5 times more.
what we aspire to , unfortanately is not reality . where the profits are is where the money is . raw materials handling and mining . has hardly any costs associated with marketing and refinement . max profit for 1st stage essentials . chase the money mate . accountants look after numbers not skills.

Outbackjack · 16-06-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

mate some of us long timers in trades , no the go . it isn't study . i have a friend who has 20 years at tafe and a wealth of certificates . latest is adanced electrical diploma. he cant get a job as a manager without taking a pay cut.
the trick is getting into an industry that australia relies on. ie . raw materials .and or essential services. the airlines for example are dirt cheap and running for minimal profit . the money goes to oil companies, the airport, the tax( government ) the business investors who outlay billions , and need big returns. and marketers etc . . until a plane falls out of the sky in australia . $$$ arent going to go to aircraft engineers.
i have been at both ends of the stick . high tolerance design machining, and fabrication work . that pays ok . to swinging a sledgehammer for 5 times more.
what we aspire to , unfortanately is not reality . where the profits are is where the money is . raw materials handling and mining . has hardly any costs associated with marketing and refinement . max profit for 1st stage essentials . chase the money mate . accountants look after numbers not skills.

Nail hit squarely on the head. Qualifications are not always the ticket to high incomes. Try to move into a industry that is vital to the country. But this will still not be a job gaurantee for life as there will always be supply and demand fluctuations in the market place.