Odometer Fraud

[wadsymoo]

i had a look at a damaged lancer a few weeks back that was on ebay and did the deal,told the bloke i'd pay and pick up the next day after i did a v-check.
came up it had been a repairable write off in 2008,but also it had 191000 k's in 07,but reregistered after being repaired and inspected with 137000 k's on the cluster,so i asked him this and said he had no idea why,but i smelt a rat so i didnt buy it. he then relisted it and made no mention of this in the ad and sold it too some other poor bugger.

when i went in too main roads yesterday too pay my rego i asked them about this and they said they dont look at all at the k's when they register a car.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by wadsymoo

i had a look at a damaged lancer a few weeks back that was on ebay and did the deal,told the bloke i'd pay and pick up the next day after i did a v-check.
came up it had been a repairable write off in 2008,but also it had 191000 k's in 07,but reregistered after being repaired and inspected with 137000 k's on the cluster,so i asked him this and said he had no idea why,but i smelt a rat so i didnt buy it. he then relisted it and made no mention of this in the ad and sold it too some other poor bugger.

when i went in too main roads yesterday too pay my rego i asked them about this and they said they dont look at all at the k's when they register a car.

thats stupid for the local state goverment...
what n.s.w. rta does is note the odo every time you reregister your car,
any disrepencies and they will ask you why!!
this should be federaly done.

[Bobman]

Agree with the above post. A few shonky dealers were shutdown and forced to pay up large fines as odometer tampering was discovered in most of their used cars on the lot.

I know of a few people who had been caught out as well when I worked at a garage that was also a VIV inspection centre.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by wadsymoo

i had a look at a damaged lancer a few weeks back that was on ebay and did the deal,told the bloke i'd pay and pick up the next day after i did a v-check.
came up it had been a repairable write off in 2008,but also it had 191000 k's in 07,but reregistered after being repaired and inspected with 137000 k's on the cluster,so i asked him this and said he had no idea why,but i smelt a rat so i didnt buy it. he then relisted it and made no mention of this in the ad and sold it too some other poor bugger.

when i went in too main roads yesterday too pay my rego i asked them about this and they said they dont look at all at the k's when they register a car.

Then why is it on the form?????
How bizzare....

Surely if they REALLY wanted to stop odometer fraud they would record the yearly reading whenever you paid your rego?
Have a question on the rego payment form where you fill it in and mail it back?

Or if its over the phone you simply dial in the KMs ?

Stranger still is the responce I got a few yrs ago about abandoned cars on the side of the road. Police told me if the car has no plates they wont look into it as its a council matter.
So if the car is stolen you can dump it on the road take the plates off and have the council collect it and sell it????

[asimplelife]

Originally Posted by hhaannkkyy

If I wanted to check the km's on my cars ECU would I be able to buy something to do it myself? Would any of the flash tuners on the market have the capabilities?

Originally Posted by data_mine

Yes, No.
You need an OBD2 scan tool. A PC/laptop, and the knowledge to pull the data from the ECU. It's not something most people can do.

Can anyone please provide more detail on how to check this?
The first low km AU XR6 I bought a couple of years back, turned out to be from a liar, but I wasn't smart enough to detect that early enough.
The car did and still does drive, look and feel like a low km car.
But I now have that element of doubt. And would prefer to be sure before I tried to sell it as low km.

I'm still learning what Forscan can do.
But I can't check that with Forscan?

Can I ask my mechanic with his more advanced scan tool to check?
He doesn't seem confident.
Although he did mention something about maybe being able to extract a km reading from the ecu?

If I can get some further instructions on how to connect with the laptop and do this myself, even if it involves some coding, I might be able to manage that.

Thanks for any help.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by wadsymoo

i had a look at a damaged lancer a few weeks back that was on ebay and did the deal,told the bloke i'd pay and pick up the next day after i did a v-check.
came up it had been a repairable write off in 2008,but also it had 191000 k's in 07,but reregistered after being repaired and inspected with 137000 k's on the cluster,so i asked him this and said he had no idea why,but i smelt a rat so i didnt buy it. he then relisted it and made no mention of this in the ad and sold it too some other poor bugger.

when i went in too main roads yesterday too pay my rego i asked them about this and they said they dont look at all at the k's when they register a car.

That’s not entirely accurate, the front counter staff don’t check because the responsibility lies with the seller, there’s a team set up to track down people who wind back odometers. If there’s no explanation like a signed statutory declaration on the form, they will catch up after the sale.

[prktkljokr]

If you find a car that has had the odometer tampered with you need to contact Commerce in your state, for W.A. its consumer@commerce.wa.gov.au or by calling 1300 30 40 54
If you give them the evidence of what you have found they will follow it up.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s not entirely accurate, the front counter staff don’t check because the responsibility lies with the seller, there’s a team set up to track down people who wind back odometers. If there’s no explanation like a signed statutory declaration on the form, they will catch up after the sale.

He probably won't care seeing as the thread is 12 years old

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

He probably won't care seeing as the thread is 12 years old

Aww nuts, I bet the speedo stil reads 137,000 km

[slowsnake]

I remember I bought a complete dash from the wreckers, just the instrument part, it was at Blacktown in Sydney, it had a sticker on the back to say it was second hand, the klm reading and a warning about putting it in another car to lower the klm reading, it looked pretty well authoritative and was cable drive!

But it's illegal to misrepresent a cars klm, that's why when you buy a car you need the service history, if it ain't got one you walk away!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

I remember I bought a complete dash from the wreckers, just the instrument part, it was at Blacktown in Sydney, it had a sticker on the back to say it was second hand, the klm reading and a warning about putting it in another car to lower the klm reading, it looked pretty well authoritative and was cable drive!

But it's illegal to misrepresent a cars klm, that's why when you buy a car you need the service history, if it ain't got one you walk away!

Later fords keep the odometer reading in the computer, you have to use ford sourced diagnosis tool to change it,
maybe tech people have a workaround now that computers are well and truly cracked…

[asimplelife]

I'm sorry if I have caused confusion digging up an old thread.
But it seemed very related to my question.


I am just trying to understand how I check if my odometer has been swapped.
The quoted post above by data_mine says that it can.
But there is no explanation. And I can't find one elsewhere.



If I found that was the case, then I would keep this car instead of selling it.
I actually prefer this one over my 4 AU 6 cyl sedans. But some have to go. And this is the only one good enough yet to sell.

[prktkljokr]

You can change the spedo reading on all cars if you know which chip in the cluster to dump the file from and change the hexadecimal code, or you can take it to a instrument repairer and they can put you original K's from you broken cluster into your replacement cluster, they wont do it unless you provide the original cluster.

I had a Smart car that someone jammed a screwdriver through the LCD readout, I de-soldered the chip from the damaged cluster and put it into the replacement cluster as the replacement had 130,000 K's more.

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by asimplelife

I'm sorry if I have caused confusion digging up an old thread.
But it seemed very related to my question.


I am just trying to understand how I check if my odometer has been swapped.
The quoted post above by data_mine says that it can.
But there is no explanation. And I can't find one elsewhere.



If I found that was the case, then I would keep this car instead of selling it.
I actually prefer this one over my 4 AU 6 cyl sedans. But some have to go. And this is the only one good enough yet to sell.

The KM aren't stored anywhere in the car except the cluster. I believe there is an hour counter in the BA onwards PCMs but I can't confirm that.

There are a number of ways to chase down KM in more modern cars. I know with several FG's I've bought that ODO is reported to CarHistory report at every service. You can also contact servicing dealer (if you don't have a service book, call 13FORD for selling dealer info then contact selling dealer to see if it's been back). Warranty repairs also have KM reported (the report records it in miles, so you have to convert it) - but not all dealers will provide you with that information.

[asimplelife]

Originally Posted by FPV414

The KM aren't stored anywhere in the car except the cluster.

Thankyou very much for clarifying.

The car was purchased from Stillwell Ford, Kew in 2000. Stillwell don't seem to be involved with Ford in Vic any more. So I am not sure where that leaves me with that avenue?

I had been told by someone that with Commodores around that vintage with a high end scan tool it was possible to find a second kilometer reading from somewhere, that if different to the speedo reading, would indicate a swap had occurred. And maybe the AU was like that too?

I also thought I had read on a forum that the number of cluster changes gets recorded somewhere in an AU. But I can't find that now. So probably I was just dreaming.

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by asimplelife

Thankyou very much for clarifying.
I had been told by someone that with Commodores around that vintage with a high end scan tool it was possible to find a second kilometer reading from somewhere, that if different to the speedo reading, would indicate a swap had occurred. And maybe the AU was like that too?

I also thought I had read on a forum that the number of cluster changes gets recorded somewhere in an AU. But I can't find that now. So probably I was just dreaming.

FG logs a code to say odometer or cluster has been changed. Maybe BA BF does too, can’t remember off the top of my head.

BA BF and earlier is plug and play to swap cluster.

FG onwards requires a parameter reset (programming in, or the car will be immobilised). If the correct programming path is followed, sometimes the odo code is not logged. A brand néw cluster can have its KM changed 3 times before it is locked and only able to be moved upwards.

Obviously, anyone who can hack them and code them through their own means can do other wild things. There’s an active thread dedicated to it currently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[asimplelife]

I am definitely not intending to disappear down that rabbit hole with my black hat on...even if I could
I just wanted to do everything I could to check if my speedo km's were genuine or not. It feels to me like they are. It drives like they are. No one else seems like they will be able to prove otherwise. So I will probably leave it at that for now.
It's just that I know now the seller was a liar. So that sent me off on this tangent.
Appreciate your sharing of knowledge.

[jakka351]

Originally Posted by GTFalcon 351

Allmost went to buy this car from carsales before i googled the rego and found that the car seems to have lost 200,000kms since it was sold interstate last month, Isnt this illegal?


http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...AI27FF&trecs=1

http://mobile.tradingpost.com.au/ite...=search&page=1

https://www.choice.com.au/transport/...he%20mid-1980s.


Its relatively easy to "wind" back an odometer for most vehicles. Best thing is to verify with Log Book services and common sense. Age of Vehicle / Average KMs per year 10 Years / 20,000 kms a year. 200,000 for a ten year old car is about average. Although there are exceptions, like Grandma's 1986 Toyota Corolla.


It is a criminal offence to modify an odometer with the intention to decieve, so this example you've posted is fraud. Call the cops.

[FG50T]

If someone if cluster tampering I'm sure they're bright enough to fix up the service books too. Aliexpress will make you any type of stamp you want now for $5. Used car salesman are selling some great cars with full service history these days that didn't even come with books in the first place.

[jakka351]

if in doubt then pull out. Or wear a condom. Better yet just abstain. someone should come up with a blockchain-style-decentralised odometer ledger.

Or remote backup of odometer - most new cars are internet connected.