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#61 | ||
Kicking back
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,543
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I don't belive that's the case, it's either a sense of self entitlement or simply not giving a crap. I own 2 multimeters. Dual redundancy. In as many years the first hasn't played up I still have my backup.
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#62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,354
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I've been in the game since 1970 & I have never seen a skill shortage like there is today. Actually it's not just a skill shortage it's more of a brain drain to other industries. The vast majority of mechanics today can't carry out basic diagnostics. Take away there scanner & they're stuffed.
The main problem with the motor trade is the ridiculously high overheads compared to other trades, so the operator can't pay for tradies the way they should. By the time you've rented a workshop, bought the equipment & paid all the various rip-off government departments, there isn't much left for the tradie or the owner. Even if you could charge out say 6 to 7 hours a day (very hard to achieve), $120 per hr (+GST = $132) is often not quite break even. Compare this to the plumbing or electrical trades. They don't need a workshop costing $1000-$1500 per week plus $100,000 worth of equipment. Most can get away with a $50,000 ute or van & maybe $10,000 or $20,000 worth of equipment. This is why so many mechanics go solo & mobile. Others just pick up their tools & go & work in a warehouse, driving a forklift, where the pay rates are often much higher. I am talking Sydney here, it probably differs in other states. I've closed my workshop over 5 years ago & now supply EFI & ignition parts to the motor trade & I'm in contact with these guys all day. Most of them are doing it pretty tough. The best selling group of new vehicles on the Australian market are fully optioned dual cab utes; Hi-Luxes, Rangers, Tritons, Colorados etc. You know the ones. Most of these are purchased by well-heeled tradies. You will note though, that very few of these are owned by are motor mechanics. Dr Terry |
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#63 | ||
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,940
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I don't know for sure if the skill shortage or lack of qualified mechanics is partly due to there being less apprenticeships on offer in recent years compared to say 20 years ago, but I know that in the HVAC or air conditioning industry, it is getting almost impossible to hire Refrigeration mechanics for the same reason.
Without new apprenticeships and businesses willing to take them on, it is inevitable that as time goes on, with the rate of older mechanics retiring and not being replaced, the problem will only get worse. With the 457 Visas also made harder to sponsor skilled overseas workers to work temporarily in Australia to fill the void will also add to the problem. |
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#64 | ||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Ive got a dirty AU, wanna hookup TG, bring some protection though, no funny stuff ok lol!!!
cheers, Maka
__________________
Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#65 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,633
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Another big issue is that big companies like Boral for example, used to run their own workshops and would hire 3 or 4 if not more new apprentices every year and the cycle would continue. Now they don't employ anybody and just contract the work out to sub contractor mechanics. Obviously they cannot be apprentices but qualified people. Now not all subbies can afford to put on apprentices as they pretty much work own their own as that is what the work they do allows them to afford (in automotive that is), so now the 3 or 4 apprentices that would normally come into the system are no longer there. The industry is mainly filled with the minimal tradies that came through the system about 10 years ago. Hate to see what will happen once they start getting to retirement age and no apprentices are their to replace them. Its time the good mechanics get paid what they are worth.
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#66 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,640
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Quote:
Hi GT-L My old boss started with Victoria’s State Electricity Commission many years ago as an apprentice. It was a different era. They would spend the first twelve months learning basic skills like sharpening drill bits or welding. They weren’t allowed near any machinery. Today in Dealerships apprentices are servicing cars after a couple of weeks. If they didn’t destroy the first couple they were pretty much left to it. Even after a couple of years a lot of these guys just can’t diagnose anything. They just come up with “no fault found”. Which is what frustrates a lot of customers. |
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#67 | ||
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,940
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For those mechanics that have worked in Ford dealerships... Do Ford Australia run regular fault finding and training workshop days for the apprentices /mechanics, or are they left to just learn from the qualified mechanics on the floor?
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#68 | ||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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The 'no fault found' thing isn't always on the mechanics. Most of the time the dealer doesn't want to spend the time looking at a problem unless the customer is paying for the labour. Usually they aren't willing to pay so the problem gets a quick 15 minute check. More often than not the problem can't be replicated in that time. Diagnosis doesn't make money.
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#69 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,640
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Quote:
That’s bang on. And all the dealer sees is the figures. The guy doing all the diagnostic work always has the worst figures. |
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#70 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,640
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Quote:
Ford had their own apprentice program but that was shut down 2 or 3 years ago. Now all apprentices are just run through group training centres with nothing ford specific. Then there’s the Ford training which I have completed. It’s a mix of online modules and practical class days. It’s really up to the dealership how much of this each Tech gets. At my previous dealership it was on the drip feed and I actually did a lot of it at home without getting paid for it. The current place is quite good with someone doing something every week. The training does help if they take it in. A lot just want to pass it and don’t apply it to their work. |
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#71 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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I know a lot of people who complain about car dealership mechanics but I think the reverse when it comes to diesel mechanics.
I once took one of my very well looked after Ford trader trucks to a well known truck and bus repairer in Wangaratta who services V line bus fleets. He had 4 jobs I required him to do where he totally stuffed up on all 4 and backed my truck into another truck telling me it must have been like that. I found this the norm from various independent mechanics. Since then I only take my trucks ( big or small) to Kenworth dealerships. I know what they charge per hour is a lot dearer but they regularly diagnose any problems straight up without stuffing around (charging me hours) like some of the hit and miss mechanics do. Most often the job will be done in half the time hence saving me down time and money and they look after your truck, doesn't matter what brand or how old it is.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#72 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
The average Joe doesn't see the huge bill when getting an X-ray or a scan, because it's usually paid by Medicare. However it's not that different to automotive diagnosis. Why should diagnosis time be at no charge or little charge compared to 'physical' labour time. Just because no actual 'repair' was carried out doesn't mean it should cost any less. You have a technician being paid $X per hour & some equipment worth $Y, The charge out rate is $Z per hour, but the retail customer often is not willing to pay for diagnosis alone. If it's a simple fix & the diagnosis fee is included in an all-up fee of say $300, no problem. But if after say 1.5 hrs nothing concrete is found or after several fruitless test drives no faults are apparent, the customer is usually not willing to pay 2c, because he figures no actual 'work' was carried out. A lot of shops won't get involved in diagnosis at all & just stick to general service work & brakes etc. where it's quick turn over & everyone including the boss gets a full pay-packet every week, without any 'stress'. Dr Terry |
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#73 | |||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Quote:
On the ABC last week they interviewed a Noakes shipwright who could find apprentices. From memory TAFE lost 44% of their staff in Victoria in 2017.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#74 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 935
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I started off as a mechanic - loved it but struggled with the pay. It's a shame the way they're treated because it's the only passion I have.
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#75 | ||
PURSUIT 250
![]() Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sydney
Posts: 5,780
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have any of you mechanics thought of doing some cousrses and going away from car mechanics.
i look after some large companies that have lift and door mechanics in all the time, they get paid well, company cars and not lying under cars. when they are on call they kill it! |
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#76 | |||
Kicking back
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,543
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Quote:
Now over the past 2 years I have squashed any talks at my firm to move into lower management. Reason being I've been there 11 years and even though I wouldn't have to justify every hour anymore, ive seen it happen when you work with people on the same level for that long then all of a sudden are a superior then that harbours a lot of resentment and people don't put in their best effort, that's a fail for a manager. If a manager gets employed in that capacity from day 1 it's fine, even in the case of someone being employed on the tools then rapidly moves up then generally most people don't care but sometimes some people are resentful. That's the case towards the project manager at my work. Now in a small company like mine there's no real advantage to going on a salary and still being expected to do the long hours. In a big company the extra say 20k on a base rate on an hourly rate if it was an 8 hour day 5 days a week then it's worth 20k. With all the extra hours I do on an hourly rate with penalty rates it's usually 26 to 30k extra a year so it makes more sense to me keeping it like it is. Plus I don't have to deal with non paying clients and all the rest. Also I have somehow over the years managed to score the benefits of a manager but am still on the tools being one of the boys. Service techs get Mitsubishi vans (I had one for 6 and a half years) but managers get a ute. I'm a service tech in a ranger that's nothing flash but it's nice compared to the L300s and the 2010 hilux the pm is in. My service manager is in a new dmax that's nicer but he gets paid accordingly and has to put up with my **** so I'll allow it. Work phone, tablet and laptop all with data allowances. My wage goes towards the mortgage and general living expenses so in my case I'm on a good thing. Base rate is not amazing but with ot and other things factored in the difference in the small place I work for is I make it up as opposed to the same pay every week. Not that I make much, it's adequate for a living but not enough for luxuries, but if I got offered a salery that's equal to what I earn for a flat 40 hour week I'd be all over that like a rash on testicles after chaffing thighs. |
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#77 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,041
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#78 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,125
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#79 | ||
......Car Crazy......
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mt Eliza,Vic
Posts: 2,103
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Been in the same boat as TOPGHIA, Nissan master tech. The poor mechanics move into the office, eventually everyone on the floor was under 26. They only ever sent me to training courses - even flew me around states lol. When i pulled the pin, 4 mechanics and a service advisor left within 2 weeks. That was 5 years ago now. I used to all ways ask around other dealers mechanics and some full qualified (at holden) were only on $17 an hr! It's not a good industry anymore, no one has passion in there jobs, they have no interest, you go to any dealership and ask a technical question and they simply cannot answer... those that where in the trade 10 plus years ago would definitely understand, feel like I was one of the last breed that actually cared for the customer. One thing for certain, once my cars are out of warranty, they will be going to "professional" workshops.
Ex mechanic, now diesel mechanic
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FG-X XR6 SPRINT Victory Gold - 025/500 VIC-XR6TS AUIII XR6 ST Blueprint - 1 of 125 VIC-XR6ST EBII S XR6 Everglade Garaged VIC-SXR6EB WANTED - BF MK2.5 XR6 Seduce - PM me RIP SHYXR
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#80 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 495
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#81 | |||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Quote:
Call out for the service company was costing the boss $250-300 each time. I spent about 30 seconds on Google, learnt the reset sequence and now reset them whenever they trip. If it works great, if not then it's obviously an actual fault and he gets the service guys in. We very rarely see them now outside of scheduled maintenance now. |
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