L platers - banned from Freeways?

[EB#]

I've never really had a problem with L drivers on the freeway.
It's the morons who like the right lane at 90 or 100 that rile me.

[sneaky]

i don't have a problem with L platers doing 80..

i always thought it would be good if P platers could do 110kph with a licenced driver next to them, but have the restricted speed when alone.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by windowlicker

Before the advent of the logbook which requires a learner to rack up 50 hours of driving there was no issue, inexperienced drivers probably avoided the 110 overtaking drama.

I didn't do a log book, had a few lessons from a German fella, and got license. I'd do the 80km/h max, but would keep up with traffic on the then shorter F3 and kept left, not middle.

Now the freeways are teeming with these learners on long drives on the freeway to get their hours up. They go along at their top speed limit of 80kmph and traffic going by is doing 110kmph at least.

NSW needs to be rid of the 80km/h max L plate 'license category' speed-limit. Then, candidates can drive on the freeways WHEN their supervising driver considers they have had enough experience on lesser roads.

Problem is, NSW is pushing other states to adopt our license category speed limits through the national process.

South of SYD on the M5-Hume they have a run of four lanes, I saw a learner in an Outback at 80km/h second from the right lane, leaving two left lanes clear of traffic. Talk to me about lane discipline and I might care a little.

Nanny state stuff, and I'll be telling GovCo so through the right channels.

[WUB913]

I dont no what L platers would do if they couldnt get there hours up on freeways. on motorways there should be a universal speed limit at 100kph for all plates

[Kable72]

Speed limitations on plated drivers is a joke. So when they go from their p's to their opens they can magically already know how to drive at 110? Learner drives NEED to learn how to cope at those speeds. Otherwise, wtf is the point?

[xisled]

IMO if you can drive at 80ks you can drive at 110ks.

If people are blaming not having enough experience driving at 100ks, and then you had an accident. Maybe you should not be on the road.

The point of a L Plates is not to break the speed record, it is to get used to the road, traffic and surroundings.

If anyone can find me an accident where someone has been killed , because they are driving to slow, show me. I will be happy to be proved wrong. But I see no problem with the 80ks rules. The problem I see, is all the impatient road users, they are more of a danger than a 80k restricted L plater.

[creative]

Having recently taught the girlfriend to drive the speed differences are stupid. We didnt do freeway driving until she felt confident enough to do it.

The first time was a joke and down right dangerous! She had trucks overtaking, people pulling some crazy moves to get round her, tailgating etc. whilst other road users need to learn to deal with learners, this first experience realy put her off driving freeways!

The second time we did it we were going for a decent drive in peak traffic to get her used to heavy traffic. Dangerous is not the word! I made her pull over, take the l's off and drive to normal road conditions and speed... Not one issue from that point!
She learnt how to merge, overtake, speed awareness, visual awreness and everything else you need to survive the freeways without 1 incident!

[H.G]

so if you can drive at 110kph you can drive at 240kph?

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by H.G

so if you can drive at 110kph you can drive at 240kph?

No one ever drives over 110kph, well 130 now in the territory-

[XRGhia]

eh. agreed with Creative.

It's a lot less worrying doing 110km/h instead of 80km/h, especially when I'm doing a Tuggerah-Redfern area run nearly every day...

IMO, its like the "ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars"... If other states can have L and P platers doing the speed limit, then don't try to ban us because the state govco is stupid enough to have these limits in place, instead remove the 80, 90 and 100km/h speed limits for L and P platers. If L or P platers dont feel safe at the speed limit, then they can sit in the left lanes and slowly build up their confidence.

[falconnut]

Originally Posted by irish2

L platers shouldn't be banned, the idiot who thought up different speed limits for L platers should be.

And P platers

[xe351]

maybe an alternate solution to say no L platers on the freeway until they have completed a certain amount of hours? when they have the feel for a car and traffic?

speaking of freeways, my gripe (other than right lane hogs) is the people who try to merge into 110kmh traffic doing 70-80km, its downright dangerous!

[falconnut]

Its painfully obvious that most of the population who drive dont know how to drive properly, hence why theres all these road rules, stupid nanny state hand holding and police everywhere.

If we didnt have any of this the general populace would be in chaos because of their stupidity, then again its unrealistic to think that everyone should grow up playing driving simulators...

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by Kable72

Speed limitations on plated drivers is a joke. So when they go from their p's to their opens they can magically already know how to drive at 110? Learner drives NEED to learn how to cope at those speeds. Otherwise, wtf is the point?

And people can magically drive at 110kph during their first ever driving lesson?

You have to draw the line somewhere. It's quite obvious that an experienced P-plater is generally going to more competent than a brand-new one, but you can hardly qualify them up in 1kph increments until they are certified for 110kph.

Now we can argue that not all drivers are equal or ready to drive at 110kph at the same time, but a practical limit needs to be established to suit the majority of drivers. Frankly, there are drivers who are technically "experienced" who shouldn't be driving at 110, and many P's or even L-drivers who could, but regulating those standards would be a nightmare without some broad guidelines.

[falconnut]

2 lane highways in 2012 are whats dangurous, not L-P platers doing the speed limit honestly.

Wheres out 3 lane highways eh? "Roads to recovery" my ***

[Kable72]

L platers aren't going to drive at 110kmph if they don't feel safe or confident to do so. Limiting the other L plate drivers who have a little experience behind the wheel and feel confident enough to drive at the same speed as everyone else isn't right. If they want to learn to drive at 110 kmph, then allow them to do so. At the end of the day, the driving instructer is still in control.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by xisled

IMO if you can drive at 80ks you can drive at 110ks.

If people are blaming not having enough experience driving at 100ks, and then you had an accident. Maybe you should not be on the road.

The point of a L Plates is not to break the speed record, it is to get used to the road, traffic and surroundings.

If anyone can find me an accident where someone has been killed , because they are driving to slow, show me. I will be happy to be proved wrong. But I see no problem with the 80ks rules. The problem I see, is all the impatient road users, they are more of a danger than a 80k restricted L plater.

Myself and many others here im sure took one day or at least no more than a week to get used to it! Pre licence experience behind the wheel (even a pushbike on the roadways can help) is a good contributor to this. After one week id be hard pressed to stick to 80...but i guess the curent way Govco are preparing us for a lifetime of screwing over from a young age!

And to mention the underlined part of your post, those sort of accidents are called either "Single vehicle accidents" or "head on collisions", all due to FATIGUE from driving too SLOW at the same speed then having the driver drive straight off the road or into oncoming traffic.

(im not picking on your post by the way xisled, i agree with some points)

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by Kable72

L platers aren't going to drive at 110kmph if they don't feel safe or confident to do so. Limiting the other L plate drivers who have a little experience behind the wheel and feel confident enough to drive at the same speed as everyone else isn't right. If they want to learn to drive at 110 kmph, then allow them to do so. At the end of the day, the driving instructer is still in control.

Thats right. Should they remove the 80kph limit here, the driver DOES NOT have to jump straight to driving at 110! Its called discretion! Its not a hard concept at all!

[JC]

Originally Posted by windowlicker

Should they be banned until P plates are attained?

L plate cars present a rolling road block on a Freeway. Some trucks and caravans are bad enough, but the sheer numbers of L plates on the F3 north of Sydney is lunatic.

Before the advent of the logbook which requires a learner to rack up 50 hours of driving there was no issue, inexperienced drivers probably avoided the 110 overtaking drama. Now the freeways are teeming with these learners on long drives on the freeway to get their hours up. They go along at their top speed limit of 80kmph and traffic going by is doing 110kmph at least. Someone is going to be killed, it just needs the right adverse circumstances and it can all go to --- real fast.

End of gush.

This issue highlights that this particular law is ridiculous. L and P platers should be able to travel up to the posted limit, just like everyone else. There is no logical reason to artificially slow them down, except that they become moving revenue if they do the actual speed limit, or they become moving roadblocks if they travel at their artificially imposed limit.

In the ACT, where we share some roads with NSW, we have the totally stupid situation where an L plater can travel at 100km/h on the Monaro Highway or Federal Highway in the ACT, but as soon as they hit the NSW border section of the same pieces of road, they have to drop 20km/h. How does that make sense? If they got to the border at 100km/h and survived, then there is no reason to slow them down over the border - it just defies logic!

[FPV+fteT3]

NSW and the L & P plate speed limits. There are some good arguments here but everyone is missing the point.

(1) First step in NSW make it illegal to display L or P plates inside the vehicle windscreens they must go outside in full view.

(2) Why? Simple the plates are easy to spot at a distance for police and camera operators

(3) To raise revenue lets slow down everyone with any plates on and fine them for driving to the conditions or traffic flow.

(4) Net result millions into the coffers of NSW Govco each year, other states will follow when they are privvy to the cash grab to be had.

Not hard to follow the chain of events and what the motive behind it is. Road safety is the ideal all pollies hide behind when the real reason for anything even double demerits is about raising revenue. If road safety was important L & P platers would not be a moving chicane on our roads.

[Ford_The_Win]

When I was learning to drive, we used to just take the plates down and do 100 for that exact reason, not that I advocate breaking the law but it highlights how ridiculous the speed restriction is. If you live anywhere near metropolitan areas, freeways are a part of life, and learners need to learn how to drive and behave at 100 km/hr so banning them is totally inappropriate. I feel sorry for young drivers in NSW, they have it much tougher than anyone else it seems. I still reckon Vic has the better licensing system - 18 is a good age to get a driver's licence, but the whole logbook system is horribly flawed and some of the restrictions are a little thoughtless, but nowhere near as stupid as NSW.

[MWTB]

Yeah, lets have every learner driver limited to 80km/h and then when he gets his license his mates call him up for a ride home from the city one night when they miss the last bus/train and can't afford a taxi, they'll be thrown onto a 100/110 km/h freeway with no experience.

Then again, we do live in Australia and logic doesn't seem to be a factor in many laws, road laws especially.

Here's a crazy idea, how about leaners just do whatever the speed limit is! My first driving experience was in a car park, then 5 minutes later after I learned how to drive a manual car, I was taken out to Yarra Glen where the speed limit is 110. If I recall correctly, I was actually killed and the local churches were all burned down.

Actually no, that's not right. I drove to the 110km/h speed limit and returned home safely.

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by xe351

maybe an alternate solution to say no L platers on the freeway until they have completed a certain amount of hours? when they have the feel for a car and traffic?

speaking of freeways, my gripe (other than right lane hogs) is the people who try to merge into 110kmh traffic doing 70-80km, its downright dangerous!

You haven't been to brisbane lately have you?

Its the home of slow merges, right lane hogs, and must be 10k under every speed limit. Now thats annoying.

[my_gxl]

Originally Posted by falconnut

2 lane highways in 2012 are whats dangurous, not L-P platers doing the speed limit honestly.

Wheres out 3 lane highways eh? "Roads to recovery" my ***

The keep left message is the problem.

Even in 3 lanes, the slow people are in the centre, to avoid the even slower people who merge at a crawl. Then the lane hogs are in the right lane, so its all screwed.

More queenslanders need to be fined for travelling in the right lane unneccessarily.

Turn speed camera's into a point to point system. Still in the right lane 1km later-pic and fine.

[GTPete]

Ive got two teenage daughters learning at the moment. I think there should be two classes of L Plates, one sub 50 hours and the other for 50 plus hours.
I noticed a huge increase in competency and confidence once my girls got around 50 hours up.
The freeway should be off limits to sub 50 hour learners and open to the learners who have 50 hours or more. Learners should be able to travel up to 100 kmh once they have 50 hours up. (P plate speed limits should be min 100kmh for red and the same as everyone else for green)

Freeways offer up a relatively safe place for learners to drive and gain experience, its also an easy way to acrue hours towards their 120 hour target in NSW.

[H.G]

above all else though.. one must ask the question...
Are we just becoming far less patient these days?
remember its a speed LIMIT.. meaning its as FAST as you can go legally.. it doesnt mean you HAVE to go this fast..

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by H.G

above all else though.. one must ask the question...
Are we just becoming far less patient these days?
remember its a speed LIMIT.. meaning its as FAST as you can go legally.. it doesnt mean you HAVE to go this fast..

No I dont think we are becoming less patient. Its more of a case of L's, P's and who ever driving to the conditions up to the speed limit. Driving at 80k;s on a 110 k stretch on a Sunday morning in lightish traffic is not driving to the conditions. Learn to drive to the limit ....... not to a speed.

And that is why they cannot drive at 240k's. It is not legal to do so. If it was the same reasoning still stands.

As said, teach them to drive which means, to the limit, conditions permitting. That is why they are on the road. If they are not confident, or the person sitting next to them, then stay away from areas that allow faster speeds.

Doing 50k's through the city of Sydney is way more dangerous than sitting at the speed limit on a freeway!

[H.G]

I still find it hard to understand how coming up behind an L plater that is going slower than the limit can be so dangerous...and if it is.. its definately not thier fault. I would take a guess that if you find yourself hard on the picks because you have caught upto a slower vehicle then you would be the person that is not paying attention to the road... Im not against them learning to drive at normal speeds.. but I dont see it as dangerous as everyone here is making out.. and if trusks or other cars are making dangerous decisions to pull out infront of other vehicles because they are stuck behind a slower vehicle then that would be due to that person being too impatient to wait. so its not really about the learner.. but about the open drivers attitudes and ability to use fore thought.

[Auslandau]

Its not necessarily about being dangerous. Its more about the learning aspect ....... BUT I have had the poo scared out of me enough to know on freeways, no matter how much you are paying attention, to have a car in front suddenly change lanes and you find yourself sitting on 100 with a car in front doing 20 odd K's under the limit. If I wasn't paying attention in all cases I could have caused one of those end to ends you see everyday on the freeways. It is very unnerving ...... and has never been an L plater. Just someone who was not driving to the conditions ....... bit of a theme happening there

[GreenR]

Originally Posted by xisled

The point of a L Plates is not to break the speed record, it is to get used to the road, traffic and surroundings.

Exactly and the traffic on the road that is surrounding you is going 100km/h or 110km/h.