Qantas job cuts

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

sorry to be off topic , ill keep it short , but happy to have a debate in another thread .
SORRY to insult you , what i was tryig to say was , people who work shuold not need handouts to get by . but the truth is they do , and that is not your fault . to me it's an insult that your a respectable guy , with a trade and arent being paid enough to support your family . i am insulted at the wealthy employers , and anybody else who agrees that this is acceptable in terms of living standards australia . i spend my time defending australias living standard and supporting workers wages and conditions . it sickens me that average and low paid WORKERS say they are getting paid enough , when they are not .

where i totally agree with you is money doesnt make people happy , what makes people happy is time at home , and a little enjoyment , id take that anyday over wealth . cheers .

I am going to hold off on actually answering this for the moment...

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

look at the ANZ, where its posted massive profits, has lifted interest rates and announced 1000 people will be sacked as well.

Saw in the news this morning that the CEO is rewarding the top 200 employees by treating them to a cruise worth 1.75 million.

[The Monty]

I also wanted to say, thankyou to Jim, for seeing the point of my post, even though we didnt agree

[DJM83]

Lets keep it civil guys.
How would guys feel if you were one that lost their job eh?

[SpoolMan]

The thread topic is Qantas job cuts lets keep the focus of the thread on the job cuts.
Anything thing else doesn't belong in here, center link, Government, banks etc is all for another thread topic. (excluding political threads).

[Silver Ghia]

What I cannot understand is that if Qantas close down their Tullamarine Heavy Maintenance base, and possibly Avalon as well, how are they going to cope with the ongoing structural modifications required on their early A380 aircraft? These early aircraft will need quite substantial structural fatigue modifications done in the immediate years to come, which are a result of the fatigue testing done on the Airbus test article, and Service Bulletin modifications are currently being developed right at this moment. These modifications are very labour intensive, and Qantas will need every qualified person available to get these mods done by the required times. The very recent problems with the wing rib shear cleats is just one example of early aircraft issues, Qantas will need these people. As I see it, having these mods done overseas is the only way Qantas will be able to get these mods done, as Sydney and Brisbane will most likely not be able to cope. Doing away with these heavy maintenance bases is very short sighted IMO.

Seems like Joyce and co. are trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes by saying the Airbus aircraft dont need much heavy maintenance. They do, or certainly will in the near future.

[rvsm]

the a380 came with its own maintenance contracts so we don't do the heavy maintenance on them.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by rvsm

the a380 came with its own maintenance contracts so we don't do the heavy maintenance on them.

I knew the engines were, so the heavy maintenance as well? Thats a sneaky way to get the HM done offshore. There used to be recognition and pride for Australian airlines having the best maintained thus safest aircraft in the world, no more. Just the same as any other now.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I knew the engines were, so the heavy maintenance as well? Thats a sneaky way to get the HM done offshore. There used to be recognition and pride for Australian airlines having the best maintained thus safest aircraft in the world, no more. Just the same as any other now.

It's a well known fact in aviation circles that Qantas' safety record has very little to do with the supposed superior maintenance by so called gifted australian aircraft mechanics....and that Qantas have used this as a subtle sales campaign for years.

It's all to do with stresses on the aircraft, the sheer number of take offs and landings and constant extreme temperature changes in ice and snow etc versus a temperate climate.

All Qantas flights are long haul flights of thousands of k's, Qantas don't have to de-ice their aircraft regularly etc.

So moving the servicing off shore should have stuff all impact on the number that drop out of the sky.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by z80

It's a well known fact in aviation circles that Qantas' safety record has very little to do with the supposed superior maintenance by so called gifted australian aircraft mechanics....and that Qantas have used this as a subtle sales campaign for years.

It's all to do with stresses on the aircraft, the sheer number of take offs and landings and constant extreme temperature changes in ice and snow etc versus a temperate climate.

All Qantas flights are long haul flights of thousands of k's, Qantas don't have to de-ice their aircraft regularly etc.

So moving the servicing off shore should have stuff all impact on the number that drop out of the sky.

hahahaha . thats not the inside word that appears to be going around Z80.
A FRIEND OF MINE USED TO WORK AS A TOOLMAKER IN A TOOLROOM INTHE 80'S qantas was the only aussie airline at the time that did not rebuild turbine fans , they replaced them with new ones , this was attributed to an australian airline with worlds best practice . you ever watched that show airline disaters , . seen any qantas planes on there yet , i did see a plane on that show go down though cause of a piece of 20c sticky tape left over a sensor , no de icing there .

[z80]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

hahahaha . thats not the inside word that appears to be going around Z80.
A FRIEND OF MINE USED TO WORK AS A TOOLMAKER IN A TOOLROOM INTHE 80'S qantas was the only aussie airline at the time that did not rebuild turbine fans , they replaced them with new ones , .

So are you saying Aussie toolmakers are no good?


Or are you saying Ansett were no good?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by z80

It's a well known fact in aviation circles that Qantas' safety record has very little to do with the supposed superior maintenance by so called gifted australian aircraft mechanics....and that Qantas have used this as a subtle sales campaign for years.

It's all to do with stresses on the aircraft, the sheer number of take offs and landings and constant extreme temperature changes in ice and snow etc versus a temperate climate.

All Qantas flights are long haul flights of thousands of k's, Qantas don't have to de-ice their aircraft regularly etc.

So moving the servicing off shore should have stuff all impact on the number that drop out of the sky.

Disagree with you there, I know first hand, not with Qantas but with Ansett, what I said was certainly the case, before the rot set in during its last years. The workmanship done was noticeably superior compared to that done by overseas facilities and even the manufacturers themselves, observed by myself. And the aircraft when sold had a very good reputation. Due to the high usage and operations of the aircraft, Ansett aircraft were the lead (the highest flight times/cycles) for B727 and other types in the world. And the wind at altitude was recognised as amongst the most severe in the world. The vigilant inspections, and advanced and innovative inspection techniques used by engineers and technicians, meant defects were being found long before they were found by any other operator. I can cite many examples here, also where manufacturers adopted Ansett inspection techniques and repair methods into their own manuals.

We took good care in our aircraft back then, doing work well over and above that required by manufacturers and airworthiness authorities, to ensure minimal problems further down the track.

[z80]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Disagree with you there, I know first hand, not with Qantas but with Ansett, .

Ok ,that was decade ago...but the topic is Qantas.

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

what I said was certainly the case, before the rot set in during its last years. The workmanship done was noticeably superior compared to that done by overseas facilities and even the manufacturers themselves, observed by myself..

Probably cause MELB/SYDNEY was 600 bucks return economy then?
(Elsewhere in the world it was far less for similar miles)

A lot has changed in 20 years mate.

In any event, you were impressed with Ansett, but how can you possibly claim to have an in depth criticism of all other overseas facilities?
My contention after all is that Qantas staff aren't the best in the world, it's very patriotic, but far from accurate....I contend that a good portion of the aircraft reliability is due to the long haul runs.

(A bit like a taxi, always stays warm, engine lasts a million k's)

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

And the aircraft when sold had a very good reputation. Due to the high usage and operations of the aircraft, Ansett aircraft were the lead (the highest flight times/cycles) for B727 and other types in the world..

Know exactly what you mean...the Ansett Bae aircraft were sold to American Airlines.

I remember travelling on the filthy planes, exhaust fuming cabin many times to Port Hedland, (eventually the cabin staff took industrial action).

In 2001 I commented to the captain of the AA flight from San francisco to LA about the aweful noise and fumes and he proudly stated that they had just got them for a great price from Ansett.

Yep...great fleet mate...NOT

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

We took good care in our aircraft back then, doing work well over and above that required by manufacturers and airworthiness authorities, to ensure minimal problems further down the track.

So....you reckon you guys did it better than Boeing etc?

Sorry, I don't believe you...

Overservicing doesn't necessarily assure reliability.

[The Monty]

No probs, tired and cranky me got he better of me. I understand where you are coming from, and am also sorry to do the same to you back.

[Jim Goose]

Well know fact in aviation circles????? oh lordy...

[Road Games]

I realise this is a touchy subject but why do I have to read about it on a FORD forum ??

Hope it gets resolved quickly

[rvsm]

lol z80 you have no clue what goes on we go well above the required standards required by casa and faa to keep our aircraft airworthy. safest airline in the world.

[nuthin' fancy]

QANTAS is an airline, no airline continues to exist without Government subsidy. Since Orville and Wilbur Wright took off airlines have lost much more money than they have made.

Look at the 'successful' airlines, Singapore, Etihad, Emirates etc, all subsidised by their particular governments. They don't make money.

Here in Australia, the protection is not through direct subsidy but by the restriction on international airlines flying domestic routes. They can't and the domestic operators make their money here.

There is no money in flying people internationally, never has been.

Our ability to deal internationally gets easier and easier, why are you going to pay $50 per hour for work here when comparable quality is available next door (Asia) for much less?

I don't envy anyone caught in the midle of career disruption, but it was our parents (or grandparents) who had the reasonable expectation of one employer, not us.

At the end of the day too, the shareholders don't get dividends and the share price has fallen, so they have lost too.

Bottom line, don't invest in airlines, pay your fares direct to the airline by credit card and make sure you have enough money to get home if your plane isn't there to collet you.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

QANTAS is an airline, no airline continues to exist without Government subsidy. Since Orville and Wilbur Wright took off airlines have lost much more money than they have made.

Look at the 'successful' airlines, Singapore, Etihad, Emirates etc, all subsidised by their particular governments. They don't make money.

Here in Australia, the protection is not through direct subsidy but by the restriction on international airlines flying domestic routes. They can't and the domestic operators make their money here.

There is no money in flying people internationally, never has been.

Our ability to deal internationally gets easier and easier, why are you going to pay $50 per hour for work here when comparable quality is available next door (Asia) for much less?

I don't envy anyone caught in the midle of career disruption, but it was our parents (or grandparents) who had the reasonable expectation of one employer, not us.

At the end of the day too, the shareholders don't get dividends and the share price has fallen, so they have lost too.

Bottom line, don't invest in airlines, pay your fares direct to the airline by credit card and make sure you have enough money to get home if your plane isn't there to collet you.

A saying which used to do the rounds in aviation was:

"How do you make a millions dollars in aviation?"
"You start with two million!"

You 100% correct, aviation is incredibly difficult to make money. Look at nearly all the short haul runs in Australia and you find that those routes are government subsidised because of low passenger numbers.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

Bottom line, don't invest in airlines, pay your fares direct to the airline by credit card and make sure you have enough money to get home if your plane isn't there to collet you.

I really like that quote nuthin' fancy. Back in days before my time, airlines were expensive and the best way to travel interstate was to go at 80mph+ on our unrestricted roads in a really good road car, like a V8 Ford Falcon/Fairmont/Fairlane! There was this little race at Bathurst used to test the durability of the cars so owners would be able to do this!

Could we go full circle? Agree with your post btw,

[Miss_XR6]

Wish Alan Joyce wasnt voted to run Qantas... Look at DJ now he lost to Alan Joyce and now DJ have become the best domestic airline in Australia.

Airlines come and go yes but Qantas is Australian and everyone needs to do everything possible to keep it here in Australia sending it offshore will have major problems not only with job cuts but the workmanship wont be up to the same level ect

[Jim Goose]

Yet another stupid move.... If Vietnam airlines is about to go bust, merging with Jetstar Pacific only delays the inevitable! In the same way Strategic merged and then failed.... and like every other airline before it....

Vietnam Airlines takes control of Jetstar Pacific


Qantas says Vietnam Airlines is buying the majority stake in its Jetstar Pacific brand from Vietnam State Capital Investment Corporation.

The new partnership will inject $25 million into the brand, which will be used to increase the low-cost carrier's fleet of aircraft.

Under the arrangement, Qantas' stake in Jetstar Pacific also will increase, from 27 per cent to 30 per cent.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said the deal was the latest stage of the company's "dual brand" strategy.

"We are confident this partnership between a low-cost carrier and a full-service airline in Vietnam can replicate the success of our Qantas and Jetstar strategy in Australia, and follows our recent partnership with Japan Airlines to form Jetstar Japan," Mr Joyce said.

Late last year, Vietnamese media reported that Jetstar Pacific would merge with Vietnam Airlines to save the Vietnamese national carrier from becoming insolvent.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-2...-stake/3844504

[Miss_XR6]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yet another stupid move.... If Vietnam airlines is about to go bust, merging with Jetstar Pacific only delays the inevitable! In the same way Strategic merged and then failed.... and like every other airline before it....




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-2...-stake/3844504

Just some FYI and yes I work for the airlines

VN is never going to become bankrupt as it is owned by the government unless the government looses all there money which is highly doutful with the way the Vietnamese government are....

This merger though could see different things happen however Jetstar Asia was there main competitor within Vietnam so it will close that off

Strategic never merged with anyone... They had been around from the 90s as a cargo airliner than branched off as a domestic/international airline than changed names late last year to Air Australia... They were never going to last and we had win of this for over a month about there losses....

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Miss_XR6

Just some FYI and yes I work for the airlines

VN is never going to become bankrupt as it is owned by the government unless the government looses all there money which is highly doutful with the way the Vietnamese government are....

They are run as a state owned corporate entity.... with a borad of directors etc.. much the same way Qantas was before its half share was sold off.
They were going to sell 20/ 30 % of the company off a few years ago but it never happened.

Originally Posted by Miss_XR6

Strategic never merged with anyone... They had been around from the 90s as a cargo airliner than branched off as a domestic/international airline than changed names late last year to Air Australia... They were never going to last and we had win of this for over a month about there losses....

Sorry was under the impression it had prior to the name change.... once they lost their ADF contract they simply got too big for their boots.

[Miss_XR6]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

They are run as a state owned corporate entity.... with a borad of directors etc.. much the same way Qantas was before its half share was sold off.
They were going to sell 20/ 30 % of the company off a few years ago but it never happened.



Sorry was under the impression it had prior to the name change.... once they lost their ADF contract they simply got too big for their boots.

VN is still owned by the government and is only chaired by 7 members the PM has chosen... Government has tried to make 30% approx private but it never meets the deadlines...
I use to fly them all the time for work



And yes they went down (Air Australia/Strategic) once they lost there ADFcontract and thought they could become a low cost carrier and couldnt they dont have the big boys like Richard Branson or Qantas that Dj and JQ have to back it...

[Jim Goose]

Qantas woes continues:

Qantas accused of breaching safety guidelines

Qantas is facing two investigations after reportedly not warning staff last week before announcing sackings and closures.

It is alleged Qantas breached safety guidelines and broke industrial law.

Last week the airline announced it was axing 500 jobs and reviewing hundreds of maintenance positions after reporting a sharp fall in first-half profit.

The engineers union claims Qantas breached the guidelines by not warning staff of the structural changes before going public.

A safety document obtained by the ABC appears to confirm this claim.

The Fair Work Ombudsman's office says it will also look into claims by the Transport Workers Union that Qantas broke industrial law by not warning workers before telling the public.

It has also emerged the Civil Aviation Safety Authority is already interviewing Qantas managers to make sure the airline's structural changes are safe.

A Qantas spokesman says the company has complied with industrial laws and safety guidelines.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by z80

Ok ,that was decade ago...but the topic is Qantas.




Probably cause MELB/SYDNEY was 600 bucks return economy then?
(Elsewhere in the world it was far less for similar miles)

A lot has changed in 20 years mate.

In any event, you were impressed with Ansett, but how can you possibly claim to have an in depth criticism of all other overseas facilities?
My contention after all is that Qantas staff aren't the best in the world, it's very patriotic, but far from accurate....I contend that a good portion of the aircraft reliability is due to the long haul runs.

(A bit like a taxi, always stays warm, engine lasts a million k's)

Know exactly what you mean...the Ansett Bae aircraft were sold to American Airlines.

I remember travelling on the filthy planes, exhaust fuming cabin many times to Port Hedland, (eventually the cabin staff took industrial action).

In 2001 I commented to the captain of the AA flight from San francisco to LA about the aweful noise and fumes and he proudly stated that they had just got them for a great price from Ansett.

Yep...great fleet mate...NOT




So....you reckon you guys did it better than Boeing etc?

Sorry, I don't believe you...

Overservicing doesn't necessarily assure reliability.

Interesting...considering no ex-Ansett BAe146 aircraft went to the US.

Some went to Europe to enter service with various European airlines, most were scrapped due to being unable to be sold. The BAe was not really a success with the airlines, the -300's especially were struggling in the hotter regions due to the marginal aircon system, which caused the cabin smells. They were better on the Tassy routes. Ansett with BAe tried all sorts of mods. to reduce the smells, but none worked.

There is a big difference between over-servicing, and additional work we did on the aircraft including Boeing aircraft. For example, as mentioned the advanced inspection techniques, and a comprehensive corrosion inspection and reprotection program which was over and above that was required by the manufacturers then.

Yes I was talking about Ansett, but 20-30 years ago which is the era I was referring to, all Australian airlines (Ansett, TAA/Australian, Qantas) had similar standards of maintenance back then, I should have mentioned that.

[Mickxr8]

Just sits back and waits,, till a Qantas jet falls out of the sky on aussie soil and kills lots of people.
Morbid ? probably,, but there is cost cutting then there`s "cost cutting"
Watch the `blame game` begin then ?.
Don`t know much about internal airline stuff but as a passenger I`m starting to worry..

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by mickxr8

Don`t know much about internal airline stuff but as a passenger I`m starting to worry..

Still heaps safer than in a car, even with the safest driver.

[GT0132]

Hold on for the ride as it looks like it's gonna be a bumpy one.

the banks axing jobs
Sleep City in administration
qantas axing jobs and routes
Air Australia in administration
Pacific Brands closing factories and laying off staff

Smells like a delayed recession looming to me. Not looking like a good year ahead at all