Ford posts $191 million loss

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1227364528628
Interestingly, they may be selling fewer vehicles but they are making more profit on the one's they are selling.................

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1227364528628
Interestingly, they may be selling fewer vehicles but they are making more profit on the one's they are selling.................

But still making a loss.

I think the journo has misunderstood/misstated the accounts. I read it as they are still making a loss on every car but because they are selling less cars - then less losses for the year.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Spammy

But still making a loss.

I think the journo has misunderstood/misstated the accounts. I read it as they are still making a loss on every car but because they are selling less cars - then less losses for the year.

They made more money out of each car (probably because of the fact much of the R&D has already been paid off with FG, FG2, and little work done on FGX) compared to last year. But they're still losing money.

[AussieCJ7]

maybe if they sold the cars instead of hoping someone just wanders in a buy one they might stand a chance

Dealers are flat out even having decent range to test drive, dealers no bugger all about their product and marketing is completely lost in attracting the right buyers

[99AUXR]

Exactly why they are moving away from the falcon.

[wulos]

The other question that needs to be asked / considered, is whether they are 'deferring' / transferring losses to make the introduction of the "NEW" range look like a much more appealing prospect?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by wulos

The other question that needs to be asked / considered, is whether they are 'deferring' / transferring losses to make the introduction of the "NEW" range look like a much more appealing prospect?

Well that is their past practice, deferring "book" losses on asset depreciation and R&D until they are forced to realise them at some point in the future, leading to a couple of huge losses like they had in 2012-ish and 2013 I think it was

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Well that is their past practice, deferring "book" losses on asset depreciation and R&D until they are forced to realise them at some point in the future, leading to a couple of huge losses like they had in 2012-ish and 2013 I think it was

You cant escape the fact they sell bugger all cars in a very small, compedative and fragmented market and they have lost money for 7 of the last 10 years.

Without taxpayer funding they would have been out of the game many years ago.

How many fax machine manufacturers does the Government sponsor?

[GasoLane]

And brought to us by our favourite Motoring Journo, I look forward to reading his report on GMH's figures when they are released.

[FGX335]

They lost $191m but invested $335m in an R&D centre for worldwide engineering.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Interestingly, they may be selling fewer vehicles but they are making more profit on the one's they are selling.................

If they're posting a loss, they cant be making a profit on the cars, can they?

Seriously, how can this be at all surprising. They spent $100mil, they move what, 500 cars a month? and the max sales life of FGX will be 2 years. That's around $8k per car for new bumpers, headlights, touchscreen, trim changes, etc. They were never going to turn a profit. The FGX was simply a means to spread the FG's development budget over a few more cars so that the net loss for the platform wasn't so big.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by b0son

If they're posting a loss, they cant be making a profit on the cars, can they?

Seriously, how can this be at all surprising. They spent $100mil, they move what, 500 cars a month? and the max sales life of FGX will be 2 years. That's around $8k per car for new bumpers, headlights, touchscreen, trim changes, etc. They were never going to turn a profit. The FGX was simply a means to spread the FG's development budget over a few more cars so that the net loss for the platform wasn't so big.

You forgot Territory...

[zilo]

$191m loss? Prolly cause $290m went back in loans to the parent company.

Gotta maximise the tax writeoffs before pulling out?

[bobthebilda]

Obviously they have a few legacy costs associated with running down the Australian operations with redundancies etc. You would expect that to keep going up until they close off the books for the year following the closure (so up to mid year 2017) They were never going to escape these costs, it costs a lot of money to close operations.

True transparency will come in when they become import only, and then you will get a better indication of what they make on each imported car. But then again, you would expect Ford to decide to make the most profit in the country with the lowest corporate tax rate. Ie if Thailand has a lower rate, then any car coming out of Thailand will be fully priced when it comes into Oz, and very small profit made in Oz (Although harder to do with Tax office scrutiny).

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Spammy

You cant escape the fact they sell bugger all cars in a very small, compedative and fragmented market and they have lost money for 7 of the last 10 years.

Without taxpayer funding they would have been out of the game many years ago.

How many fax machine manufacturers does the Government sponsor?

That's always a funny one.......because we don't see fax machine companies pumping half a billion dollars of revenue into Australia.....not to mention all the employees and even their taxes. It's a big picture best looked at with an open agenda......

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Obviously they have a few legacy costs associated with running down the Australian operations with redundancies etc. You would expect that to keep going up until they close off the books for the year following the closure (so up to mid year 2017) They were never going to escape these costs, it costs a lot of money to close operations.

True transparency will come in when they become import only, and then you will get a better indication of what they make on each imported car. But then again, you would expect Ford to decide to make the most profit in the country with the lowest corporate tax rate. Ie if Thailand has a lower rate, then any car coming out of Thailand will be fully priced when it comes into Oz, and very small profit made in Oz (Although harder to do with Tax office scrutiny).

From memory there was already a rough audit or estimate done of how much each company will be behind at exit time......and Holden was looking in far more trouble. Over half a billion in trouble from memory. But time will tell!!

[CyberWasp]

It is all smoke and mirrors.
Ford Aus can transfer costs / revenue all over the Ford Empire.
There is no way they would post a profit when closing down even if they were.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

You forgot Territory...

Territory is built on the BA platform.

[Ruination]

Love the comments on blaming the Falcon here.
Ford Australia doesn't just have Falcons in their dealerships.... They have 13 more vehicles in their stable. All of which are declining in sales figures.
Except Falcon Ute went up 42.5% in sales in April...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by zilo

$191m loss? Prolly cause $290m went back in loans to the parent company.

Gotta maximise the tax writeoffs before pulling out?

Payments of loans have no effect on P&L's, they are balance sheet enteries. If you read the article, most (167.2) was due to redundancies and other costs associated with closing the plant. So the loss on everyday business transaction is 23.8M. This is the amount the need to work on, as once the plant is gone this is the real bottom line going forward.

Anyone else read the part about 10 models to 20 models by 2020? That is an increase of 10 models. IS that right & what would they be?

[ivorya]

How transparent are these figures issued?

I mean, how many times have you heard business accountants suggest running a company in the red to gain tax credits?

Figures mean nothing these days, it's how your able to manipulate the taxation system.

[EgoFG]

If the main "sale" is design for o/s production, it is very easy to move the profit where they want