Farmont AU II Just Stopped Running on Petrol

[RENOCASINO]

Hi guys I have this Fairmont 2000 AU II that just stopped running on petrol.

It has Dual Fuel with an IMPCO system 200 mixer 3 years old which runs Perfect ...except at start up which back fires 30% of the time.

In saying this all pointed to a New petrol pump and filter as the Impco system
Needs petrol to start the motor propley which should also stop the back fire you would think, and if not add new leads and coil pack.

I brought a complete new VDO fuel pump thanks to irdonn link on the Forum
and also a new Ryco fuel filter and the same time changed the plugs but used normal range which had before

The pump is now working you can here it coming in and out when it’s on gas
Like it should, there are still a couple of back fires but not as much
Once again the car runs perfect on the gas with a little bit less back fire
than before But at start up only other wise its GREAT

THE Problem is it won’t run on PETROL
I know the pump is running
Petrol comes out of out let when cranking
When I take it for test run and go from Gas to petrol it Dies
Sometimes it might start but sounds its on 2 pistons you can hear the Pump
then it dies after 15 sec

I just don’t know what I can do anymore
I wonder if any one else has had this problem with the AU II ... Please

[RENOCASINO]

But it dose need more time to crank the motor to start on Gas

[GK]

Blocked injectors perhaps?

GK

[TheSly1]

maybe give the injectors a tap with a screwdriver handle?

[RENOCASINO]

Yes I was thinking about that but about a month ago when I was on petrol
it did not miss a beat, you would think that you would get some sort of a warning before it come to a dead stop although it was my fault that I did not top up the petrol and now I might have to pay the price.
I also was told there some sort of fuel pressure valve that feeds the Injectors
could be not working and also the injectors might not be getting a pulse.

I can do some things my self but I don’t want to be paying someone to replace all the “I think it could be this, I think it could be that” until they find out what it is.

If we cannot resolve it I will have to bite the bullet. and empty my bank Account.

But what I need to know with today’s technology can they just put it on a computer, tell me what the problem is and tell me how much it’s going to cost.

There are a lot of AU models out there on gas and this sounds like a common problem, but I cannot see too many posts out there with the same problem.
I suppose I am not looking hard enough that’s what happens when you get over 60 guys.

TheSly1....One thing I know I can do is, tap the injectors with a screwdriver
handle ...and then if that doesn’t work, hit them with a sledgehammer then ill know what is wrong.

[TheSly1]

what about feeling the rail or putting metal end of screwdriver on fuel rail and listening for fuel going through it when its priming without starting??

[Evgeni]

Had a look at a diagram. The injectors share a common power feed with the IAC, VCT and the puirge solenoid. You can backprobe the red wire on any of these solenoids with a test light connected to battery negative.
If you are getting power but not getting battery voltage on the injectors, it will be a break in the power feed.
The second wire on the injectors is the control. If you back probe this wire on each of the injectors, you should see the test light (connected to battery negative) flicker at idle as the transitor in the PCM pulls the circuit to ground. This will tell you if each injector is getting signal.
Having said that, it is unlikely for teh PCM to lose control of all 6 as they are on different pins - but anything is possible. Check the harness. Anywhere where there is heat, vibration or leaks should be looked at closely.
Have you checked the fuel pressure regulator?

[RENOCASINO]

I have a Multimeter not a light I think if I put it on DC it should be the same
and give me some sort of a reading

I will also do the Fuel rail see if I can hear anything when its priming before starting

But how do I test the fuel preasure regulator with out taken the
motor apart


Thanks Reno

[RENOCASINO]

OK Guys I have done some testing to day this is what I have found.


On PETROL....Using a Stethoscope on the on fuel rail next to the injectors

When its PRIMING without starting something is going through
For approx 4 to 6 seconds then stops so does the pump

If you keep going and go to CRANKING everything keeps going
Including the pump ..With out STARTING of course.

If you happen to FLUKE it and it starts it sounds like its on 3 pistons
The pump still goes and WATER starts to come out of the
Exhaust Pipe which is also very STRANGE .It does not do this on GAS
As soon as you accelerate to bring up the revs everything Dies

On Petrol I then tested if power was going to the injector
By putting the Multimeter on the Red wire then to the negative
to the Battery

Turn key to ignition only ...11.6 v
Turn Key and go to CRANK ......fluctuating from 9 to 10 v

Could not test the other wire that does the the control and the
flicker at idle cause I could not get it to start and idle anymore

Turn key to ignition only Pump stays on 4 to 6 sec then stops


That’s about all I can tell you Guys Thanks Reno.

[Evgeni]

Hey Reno,
You dont need to pull the motor apart to get to the fuel pressure regulator. It just sits at the end of the injector rail closet to the fire wall. Ideally you would want a pressure tester. If you dont have one, pull the vacuum line off. If there is fuel in the vacuum line, this could mean a rupture in the internals of the regulator.
11.6v is not enough under a KOEO scenario. If you get the same reading at the battery, then this is the issue or at least part of the problem.
If the battery reads 12.6v, which it should, then you would need to check out the integrity of the wiring. The power feed comes from the EEC relay, so I would start there first. See what you get at the other places that share this power feed as this will tell you where voltage drop is occurring.

Re: testing injectors with a multimeter. Most multimeters wont be able to live with the frequency of an injector signal - it may give an average of the min/max value, which I guess is something. However some multimeters will have a min/max option. This will at least tell you that there is something going on, not ideal, but not the end of the world.

Hope this helps you.

[RENOCASINO]

I just checked the Battery it Reads 13v... its a NEW Heavy /D Century


Sorry to be a bit stupid is the EEC relay the ...fuse

and Were is the vacuum line you want me to pull out

[Evgeni]

No need to apologise.
Your battery is slightly overcharged, but no big deal. If you have 13v on the battery and 11.6v at the injectors, it means that the circuit is going to ground or shorting somewhere before the injectors. A wire with broken insulation can cause this, if part of it is touch the block for example. Whether this discrepancy is enough to put a halt on the system is another issue. You need to see what is happening when some demand is put on the system when the car is running.
The EEC relay is located in the fuse box in the engine bay. There should be a map on the inside of the fuse box lid.
The vacuum line I am referring to sits on top of the regulator. Just look at the end of the injector rail. There are three hoses attached. The top is vacuum line, there will be a fuel return directly underneath and then a supply hose next to the return. Just throwing ideas around - may not solve your problem, but I figured if you are not getting constant fuel pressure, it could be the source of the symptoms you describe.

[RENOCASINO]

OK Evgeni I will have another go at it Tomorrow

But what is all that water thats coming out on petrol start only
I hope its the normal early morning start water

[Evgeni]

Originally Posted by RENOCASINO

OK Evgeni I will have another go at it Tomorrow

But what is all that water thats coming out on petrol start only
I hope its the normal early morning start water

It's not fuel is it? Not saying you can't tell the difference, but if your senses are being assaulted by petrol fumes in the engine bay, you wont smell fuel from somewhere else.
Could be a leaking pressure regulator or a leak in the fuel rail/injector dumping a heap of fuel into the engine.
Do you spark plugs look like they have had a petrol bath?

[RENOCASINO]

Evgeni do you really think that if a ...LIVE WIRE ...is touching the motor
or body it could STOP the starting on petrol Completely ?????

Because now that I think about it, this all happened to Quick .
5 days ago I filled with about 40L of fuel I then went home and started to
change the spark plugs I took some of the IMPCO System off to make it
easy to get to the plugs.

As I got to the last one next to the firewall I found this small wire connector
inside the spark plug cavity ,its like a small book you put 2 wires in it close it like a book and the 2 wires are connected .I looked every were to see if I knocked a wire off as I was moving some of the Impco system
But I could not find a thing

Tomorrow I will bring out my 500w spot light and light the area like the MCG...and have a good look to see what is going on

Wouldn,t it be funny if this is all it is

[RENOCASINO]

By the way guys feel free to join in this post everyone is welcome .

[Evgeni]

Originally Posted by RENOCASINO

Evgeni do you really think that if a ...LIVE WIRE ...is touching the motor
or body it could STOP the starting on petrol Completely ?????

In short (excuse the pun) yes. A live wire going to ground is a short circuit. Some fuse will go to fuse box heaven and something will not be getting power.
Doesn't sound like that is the issue though, cause it starts on both fuels, just wont keep running on fuel.
I could be way off the mark, but it does sound like your engine is flooded. If it is fuel out of the exhaust this would confirm it.

And yes as RENO said, happy for others to share ideas.

[RENOCASINO]

Thanks for that Evgeni

Although it goes on Gas I have to try to fix it by Monday

Becaus the back firing at Gas start up without petrol

is going to do damage soon to something else.

So if I cannot get it going I will have to Book it in some were

on Monday

SO yes Iam Desperate any information from anywhere or anyone


Would be Welcom .....

[GK]

So how did it go?

Hope you got it sorted.

BTW, you could take and post a pic of the wire you're referring to.

Cheers,

GK

[RENOCASINO]

Thanks GK its at a Big work shop for the next couple of days

I will post as soon as I know what they have found

If it comes to replacing the injectors are Bosch Brand new Injectors OK

$50 EACH

[RENOCASINO]

Just a quick small update

They got the petrol going they found Something to do with the
COMPUTER
on the IMPCO gas system with 200 mixer 4 years old

it is stopping power or signal or something that stops the petrol from
Working

They have a temp bypass wire that keeps the petrol going to make
sure its the IMPCO Computer before they order one

Don,t know what all this means But Iam sure SOMEONE out there dose

Iam glade its not the Injectors, I always said this just happened
much to quick

Thats all I can tell you at the moment and cross my fingers that it wont cost to much.

Thanks Reno

[Evgeni]

Thats good news.
I wonder if the temp bypass wire is an alternative power supply if you were getting 11.6v on the injectors?
The good thing is if the car is running on petrol, it means that the computer is at least commanding the injectors on at the right time.

[RENOCASINO]

Hi Evgeni it sounds good dosen,t it mate can,t waite to get the car back

In saying all this I need to know how this all happened

so I can make sure this dosen,t happened again

I think we have an IMPCO Member on this forum maybe I should PM him

He might be able to put his finger straight on the problem, why it happened
and how to avoid it Happening again to all ....IMPCO members.

I will keep you upto date

[RENOCASINO]

Has anyone heard of this Processor I think this is what I have I will find out
Tomorrow


LEAN BIAS LOGIC PROCESSOR (201VAS) - AU2003100906
ABSTRACT & PATENT DETAILS
Inventor/s:
• Evans, B.
• Morgan, W.
Assignee/s:
• Global Autogas Supplies Pty Ltd
Abstract The new Lean Bias Logic (201 VAS) processo r for use in automotive LPG systems controls in a completely different manner to the traditional method employed over the past 15 years. This system employs a reverse logic processor that drives a normally closed valve (FCV). Fuel: is added via the FCV from the secondary chamber of the converter to the top of the mixer air valve or into the air valve vacuum port (similar to a vacuum power valve VPV). Instead of employing a RICH bias mixer the Lean Bias Logic (LBL) system uses a lean bias mixer with at least one extra lean shim. The base mixtures are set lean with sufficient fuel added to maintain 15.5 air fuel ratio (AFR). This eliminates the air valve vacuum being applied to the atmospheric port of the converter.
This page contains all relevant details related to patent number AU2003100906. This patent was filed on 03/11/2003 and has a status of CEASED. The inventors associated with this patent are:


They are not cheap

[RENOCASINO]

HI GUYS This was the problem Not the other One Above

Replaced it Everything is now ....PERFECT

It was Not the Pump not the injectors not the petrol pressure valve


The Question is ..What did I do to make this Happen

I do not want for this to happen Again





PEEL Satlink CP342C... (with loom) FUNCTION CONTROLLER OPERATION

The CP342 Function Controller is an upgrade (more features)
replacement for the IMPCO IFC103A.
The CP342 features a dual pattern petrol start allowing for COLD and HOT petrol assist settings. It also incorporates a ‘crank lock out’ facility in addition to internal relays for injector cut out, fuel pump isolation and fuel gauge interface. This unit is developed to provide Petrol Start Operation on Crank rather than Ignition.
Cold Start & Hot Start Modes:
If the engine is started on LPG and run for less than 30 seconds the module will revert to the COLD start mode for the next start.
If the engine is started on LPG and run for more than 30 seconds the module will then start in the HOT start mode unless the engine has been switched off for 2 hours or more in which case the module will revert to the COLD start mode.

[GK]

Great that you got it sorted.

I bet you're so relieved!

GK

[RENOCASINO]

JUST found out to day from PEEL Satlink PASS it on to all MEMBERS.




1st PEEL Satlink CP342C... (with loom) FUNCTION CONTROLLER,S
Approx 3 to 4 years ago .I think these were on IMPCO Systems

The new ones are called just .........CP342

They Had a FAULTY Relay which I THINK stopped power going to the injectors

This is the Problem that I had and no one knew about it .

If you have one of these fAULTY Controllers I think they will replace it

Mine was replaced by a work shop that didn’t know anything about this
They just brought a new one

But Iam going to see if they will replace my old one and I will have a Spair