HP vs VCT

sleekism · 21-06-2007, 01:04 PM

I was having a chat to a mate who has a XH XR6 ute with the XR6 HP motor modded with NOS and a supercharger and I responded that since his was the HP and mine is the VCT with the same mods mine has the potential to make more power.

The Tickford Sixes don't seem to have the same information as other engines on the internet so I'm not sure if my statements are justified.
I mean is the VCT motor based on the HP with the addition of VVT or is it based on the lower Intech motors basically does it have the same air flow characteristics as the HP?

Also is the HP motor the same as the EF/EL with the larger ports or is it based on the AU small port motor?

What does Tickford actually do to the Intech motor to increase power and torque ?

How much can the valve timing be changed in the VCT motor and is there are aftermarket support to cahnge the valve timing and what sort of power can be made?

I have heard some people say that the VCT was added for fuel economy not extra power but seeing as Ford officially rates fuel consumption higher in the VCT over the HP this seems stupid.

I have seen the results Casper has got with his VCT but has anyone done this with a Fairmont Ghia?

I am currently booking in soon for 2.5 inch cat back and a bit further down the track Pacemaker extractors what power figures can I expect to make and how much performance would I gain?

I have heard that fitting an XR6T snorkel helps but looking at the intake it doesnt look that restrictive would I gain any power from it?

I'm looking for around 7.5 to 100kays and low 15 quarter miles at a good price but would probably look at different diff if need must be also would it be too difficult to fit XR6 shocks to my Mont and would it improve handling?

Casper · 21-06-2007, 01:53 PM

I havent actually touched my engine yet.. all bolt on's. Anyhow, I'll try to answer what I know (or what my opinion is) anyhow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I was having a chat to a mate who has a XH XR6 ute with the XR6 HP motor modded with NOS and a supercharger and I responded that since his was the HP and mine is the VCT with the same mods mine has the potential to make more power.

I dont believe this to be the case. While the VCT "may" result in a better spread of power the actual peak power figures will be near on identical. The tune, the phase of the moon and the colour of your underwear would all have more bearing on the peak power between HP and VCT with that sort of mod level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

The Tickford Sixes don't seem to have the same information as other engines on the internet so I'm not sure if my statements are justified.
I mean is the VCT motor based on the HP with the addition of VVT or is it based on the lower Intech motors basically does it have the same air flow characteristics as the HP?

Not VVT (Variable Valve Timing), VCT (Variable Cam Timing).. different.
All the AU engines were basically identical except for the heads. The Heads are what seperate Intech from HP from VCT. That said though the VCT has some unusual exhaust flow traits that seem to make it more fussy when it comes to fitting headers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

Also is the HP motor the same as the EF/EL with the larger ports or is it based on the AU small port motor?

AU motors are not the same as EF/EL motors. All AU's had an AU based motor. Some EL's had a hybrid EL/AU motor though,

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

What does Tickford actually do to the Intech motor to increase power and torque ?

Head work, different cam and different tune. Thats it. In the VCT there was also a different exhaust setup from the cat back (worth bugger all) and the manual transmission has a different 1st gear ratio to all the other AU manuals. All the AU XR's also got 3.45 diff gears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

How much can the valve timing be changed in the VCT motor and is there are aftermarket support to cahnge the valve timing and what sort of power can be made?

Edit can make changes to the VCT range... but the VCT Edit is also missing some options avaliable in the HP too.. although SCT is working on resolving this now using a VCT ECU download supplied to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have heard some people say that the VCT was added for fuel economy not extra power but seeing as Ford officially rates fuel consumption higher in the VCT over the HP this seems stupid.

Consumption is higher in a VCT due to weight.. The VCT was designed to take advantage of an advanced cam setting for lower rpm power then reverting to a "standard" cam setting (just like the HP) as the revs increase. This brings some fuel savings but that is soon lost with the weight penalty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have seen the results Casper has got with his VCT but has anyone done this with a Fairmont Ghia?

beats me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I am currently booking in soon for 2.5 inch cat back and a bit further down the track Pacemaker extractors what power figures can I expect to make and how much performance would I gain?

make sure you get pacemaker comps... otherwise its not worth it for a VCT. expect a 10-12% increase in power and a noticeably smoother rev range above 4500rpm. Unsure about the HP but a VCT with a decent exhaust will happily rev to 6000rpm and well past 6200rpm if you want to risk it. Factory cut out is 5750rpm though so to get these rpm's you will need the edit.. and without a cam to suit there is no point going that high anyhow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have heard that fitting an XR6T snorkel helps but looking at the intake it doesnt look that restrictive would I gain any power from it?

yes. The factory intake on the VCT is the same as the Forte. The VCT likes to breathe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I'm looking for around 7.5 to 100kays and low 15 quarter miles at a good price but would probably look at different diff if need must be also would it be too difficult to fit XR6 shocks to my Mont and would it improve handling?

Exhaust and intake will see you in the low 15's. Edit will make this even lower.

FGII-XR6 · 21-06-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Consumption is higher in a VCT due to weight.. The VCT was designed to take advantage of an advanced cam setting for lower rpm power then reverting to a "standard" cam setting (just like the HP) as the revs increase. This brings some fuel savings but that is soon lost with the weight penalty.
yes. The factory intake on the VCT is the same as the Forte. The VCT likes to breathe.
.

extra weight in the VCT Casper ??? the VCT actuator would weigh about 1/2 a kilo I can't think of anything else in a VCT that would add weight ? the cam is not the same as the HP at higher revs here are the cam specs
lift
HP inlet 6.743 exhaust 6.434
VCT inlet 6.717 exhaust 6.434

timing
HP INLET OPENS @ 14 DEG BTDC CLOSES @ 68 DEG ABDC
VCT INLET OPENS @ 12 DEG BTDC CLOSES @ 72 DEG ABDC

HP EXHAUST OPENS @ 56 DEG BBDC CLOSES @ 24 DEG AADC
VCT EXHAUST OPENS @ 58 DEG BBDC CLOSES @ 24 DEG AADC

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have seen the results Casper has got with his VCT but has anyone done this with a Fairmont Ghia?

the difference between the XR6 VCT and the fairmont VCT is in the ECU fit an XR ECU and you will gain 4kw and 3nm hardly earth shatering but there are small gains. an added benifit of the XR ECU is adaptive shift no wiring mods are required to make this change so you get a slight performance boost with the more agressive shift maps available

Casper · 21-06-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

evtre weight in the VCT Casper ??? the VCT actuator would weigh anpou 1/2 a kilo I can't think of anything else in a VCT that would add weight ?

How about a couple hundred kilo's of IRS Suspension? The XR6 VCT is about 90kg's heavier than the XR6HP due primarily to the IRS setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the cam is not the same as the HP at higher revs here are the cam specs
lift
HP inlet 6.743 exhaust 6.434
VCT inlet 6.717 exhaust 6.434

timing
HP INLET OPENS @ 14 DEG BTDC CLOSES @ 68 DEG ABDC
VCT INLET OPENS @ 12 DEG BTDC CLOSES @ 72 DEG ABDC

HP EXHAUST OPENS @ 56 DEG BBDC CLOSES @ 24 DEG AADC
VCT EXHAUST OPENS @ 58 DEG BBDC CLOSES @ 24 DEG AADC

Um, yes, I said the head, CAM and ECU were all different.
What I was referring to was the cam dial in. In a HP the dial in is basically neutral. In the VCT the dial in is both advanced and neutral.. depending on what rpm the car is doing.

Dark Horse · 21-06-2007, 02:58 PM

We wanted the IRS weight, not your weight Casper, 70kg difference it is he he.

Casper · 21-06-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

We wanted the IRS weight, not your weight Casper, 70kg difference it is he he.

Close enough. Add all the VCT leather, premium sound, premium brakes and other crud they started coming out with at the end as standard and it would probably be closer to 100kg's

:

Either way, the VCT is a significantly heavier sedan option for option.

Dark Horse · 21-06-2007, 04:30 PM

So in short: heavy, thirsty suckers that take a little bit of fiddling to get going fast.

Now about those shocks: Monroe GT's (badge engineered Motorcraft Reds - as fitted to XR's) are pretty average really, much better options out there than that.

FGII-XR6 · 21-06-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

How about a couple hundred kilo's of IRS Suspension? The XR6 VCT is about 90kg's heavier than the XR6HP due primarily to the IRS setup.

Um, yes, I said the head, CAM and ECU were all different.
What I was referring to was the cam dial in. In a HP the dial in is basically neutral. In the VCT the dial in is both advanced and neutral.. depending on what rpm the car is doing.

sorry didn't take the IRS into account

KR1STO · 21-06-2007, 08:20 PM

is changing the standard VCT ecu to a xr6 ecu just unplugging the old one and plugging in the xr one or do other things have to be changed?

bodes-sh · 21-06-2007, 10:34 PM

you need to reprogram the ecu and bem if you change the ecu, for the sake of it, just get the edit done, then you can get it set up exactly how you want it

Falcon Freak · 21-06-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have heard some people say that the VCT was added for fuel economy not extra power but seeing as Ford officially rates fuel consumption higher in the VCT over the HP this seems stupid.

The AU XR6 VCT had a little bit more power then the AU XR6 HP. The VCT model weighed more then the HP as it had IRS whereas the HP had the solid rear axle. Therefore the VCT was more expensive and used more fuel then the HP but didn't go much faster. I'd choose the HP over the VCT.

FF

FGII-XR6 · 22-06-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

you need to reprogram the ecu and bem if you change the ecu, for the sake of it, just get the edit done, then you can get it set up exactly how you want it

true but then you don't get the adaptive shift

Mark351 · 22-06-2007, 06:39 AM

VCTs came with different headers, HPs came with forte exhaust as well from memory.

bodes-sh · 22-06-2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

true but then you don't get the adaptive shift

what does it matter they can change shift points with the edit anyway...

Casper · 22-06-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathXR

VCTs came with different headers, HPs came with forte exhaust as well from memory.

nope, VCT's got the same crappy headers as the HP's unfortunatly. The Fairmont Ghia's got a slightly different version of headers though, only for noise reduction though.

FGII-XR6 · 22-06-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

what does it matter they can change shift points with the edit anyway...

adaptive shift has 5 shift maps not 2 it give you so much more to play with

Sapper · 22-06-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Edit can make changes to the VCT range... but the VCT Edit is also missing some options avaliable in the HP too.. although SCT is working on resolving this now using a VCT ECU download supplied to them.

Interesting. I wonder if the VCT adjustment is done through software or if they use hardware (like logic gates). Both are equally feasible options.

Casper · 22-06-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VenomST

Interesting. I wonder if the VCT adjustment is done through software or if they use hardware (like logic gates). Both are equally feasible options.

Its software. The VCT (and BBM I believe) can be told what rpm to operate at.

Sapper · 23-06-2007, 01:18 AM

That's encouraging Casper! Even if it is only 2 stage, being able to adjust the VCT will open the doors a lot for new cams. Keep us posted mate, or even better, let us know where we can keep track of progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

here are the cam specs
lift
HP inlet 6.743 exhaust 6.434
VCT inlet 6.717 exhaust 6.434

timing
HP INLET OPENS @ 14 DEG BTDC CLOSES @ 68 DEG ABDC
VCT INLET OPENS @ 12 DEG BTDC CLOSES @ 72 DEG ABDC

HP EXHAUST OPENS @ 56 DEG BBDC CLOSES @ 24 DEG AADC
VCT EXHAUST OPENS @ 58 DEG BBDC CLOSES @ 24 DEG AADC

Hmm, there's not much in it. What are the durations like at 50thou or 75thou?

sleekism · 25-06-2007, 01:16 PM

This is quite interesting information.

A lot of workshops dont seem to touch the VCT beyond the basic bolt on mods.

Casper · 25-06-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

This is quite interesting information.

A lot of workshops dont seem to touch the VCT beyond the basic bolt on mods.

correct. It was an orphan engine for a long time. Thats changing now.

P100 Ute · 25-06-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

We wanted the IRS weight, not your weight Casper, 70kg difference it is he he.

that much heavier ?
when i got my AU IRS shipped over it weighed in @ 75 kilo on the shipping scales and was recorded on the docket.

and from memory its not that heavy as 2 ppl can carry it no worries

i can carry a normal diff by myself but i dunno how much they weight.

sleekism · 26-06-2007, 01:29 PM

70 kilos aint a lot really!

I can save probably nearly 300 kilos by kicking my mates out of the car or make up for it with a simple exaust.

I cant wait to see further developmants of the VCT imagine if it had the level of aftermarket support RB's and Ecotecs had.

Dark Horse · 26-06-2007, 09:47 PM

70 kg on a 1600 kg car is almost 5%. Might not matter on the road, on the track though might be a different story.

MRJUCY · 26-06-2007, 10:03 PM

On a race track it's a definite burden but in the real world on average roads the AU IRS more then makes up for it in ride, handling & traction.

b2tf · 26-06-2007, 10:09 PM

wasnt there a bloke on old aufalcon website who was doing a bit to his Ghia? Black Pig or something?

Casper · 27-06-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

wasnt there a bloke on old aufalcon website who was doing a bit to his Ghia? Black Pig or something?

He's belting around in his F6 these days. Still had the Ghia but not working on it anymore.

loony888 · 27-06-2007, 07:32 PM

ok, can you tell me what the differences are between the std intech and the hp engines? and is there a visual way to tell them apart??
cheers,
paul.

sleekism · 27-06-2007, 07:38 PM

Visually-red powdercoated head and tickford badge.

I will let the experts fill in the rest i'm not 100% but I think they have larger ports than std and different headers.

sleekism · 27-06-2007, 07:39 PM

http://trueblueford.com/Falcon_Choice.htm good read