Makin' 220

JimmyJ · 21-05-2007, 10:38 PM

Hey all, new to the forum and I need some info. I have a series 3 AU XR6HP, blueprint in colour and completely standard. I'm looking at moding it, and I'm aiming to have 220KWRW. What would be a good starting point and how would I do it without turbo or charger.

Cheers.

feebs · 21-05-2007, 10:42 PM

Nitrous Oxide !! :-)

onfire · 21-05-2007, 11:02 PM

A Spoon engine, t66 turbo with nos and a MoTeC system exhaust.

BLACKAUXR8 · 21-05-2007, 11:08 PM

your best bet would be a turbo kit. But start with an exaust 2 1/2 inch a nice cam and a new computer. But if you do go turbo you will need another computer again so keep this in mind if you buy one first.

NeishaXR8_347 · 21-05-2007, 11:38 PM

With a N/A 6cyl making 220rwkw's with no boost or juice(nos) the car would not be street drivable, it would idle and drive at low rpm's like a pig.

51OAU · 21-05-2007, 11:56 PM

umm my mate, use to own a el fairlane, 6 cylinder. He had:

port n polish on the heads only mild, billit cam custom grind, HP4 chiptorqe chip, pacemaker tuned length extractors, exhaust, 3.9lsd, shiftkitted box.

ran a 14.6 @ 97mph

206RWHP or 158RWKW.

another guy.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ghlight=oed666

b2tf · 22-05-2007, 12:01 AM

You're going to be fighting an uphill battle to get a 6 to that kind of power level unassisted by a turbo, blower etc. If you want to stick to N/A, the usual mods are probably the best way to go:

Exhaust and extractors
Cam + headwork
Intake
Tune - always do last

That could get you around the 170rwkw mark depending on what products you use.

Turbo you will get 220rwkw very easily provided you don't skimp on the parts or the tuning.

atec77 · 22-05-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyJ

Hey all, new to the forum and I need some info. I have a series 3 AU XR6HP, blueprint in colour and completely standard. I'm looking at moding it, and I'm aiming to have 220KWRW. What would be a good starting point and how would I do it without turbo or charger.

Cheers.

n/a ?
N2O and some serious piston /compression/cam / computer/injectors and 'zorst

51OAU · 22-05-2007, 01:06 AM

if u are going to turbo your car, u are better off doing it all right the first time, when i was thinking about doing it, i was just gonna purchase a second hand motor off ebay ($300), i was gonna still drive my falcon around and just do the other engine up slowy. Pull the engine apart, recondition it do all the pistons and what not all in one go. i still would be able to drive my car, but would be building one tuff engine over time. Have all the other stuff ready, and over a one week holiday, take the old engine out and in with a brand new one, change the dif and all that over then too. week after that have it tuned and hopefully all sweet.

NeishaXR8_347 · 22-05-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8lueoval

if u are going to turbo your car, u are better off doing it all right the first time, when i was thinking about doing it, i was just gonna purchase a second hand motor off ebay ($300), i was gonna still drive my falcon around and just do the other engine up slowy. Pull the engine apart, recondition it do all the pistons and what not all in one go. i still would be able to drive my car, but would be building one tuff engine over time. Have all the other stuff ready, and over a one week holiday, take the old engine out and in with a brand new one, change the dif and all that over then too. week after that have it tuned and hopefully all sweet.

Sounds all very good, oh i wish life went as smooth as thoughts and dreams do lol.

StealthAu · 22-05-2007, 09:28 AM

If your looking at 220rwkw's n/a, its doable if you have 50k+ to play with. It would be alot cheaper, and easier just to go fourced

Sapper · 22-05-2007, 10:24 AM

Sounds like a decent supercharger would be a good option here. Seriously, unless you are planning on spending a lot of time researching and a lot of time with your car off the road then it might be good to readjust your target.

If you're completely set on NA, then 160-170 rwkW would be a reasonably attainable target. If >200rwkW is a must, then forced induction is the most practical (by far) solution. Just budget for a solidly upgraded drivetrain as well.

Give us some more insight into what you really want to achieve so that we can point you in a direction that you're most happy with.

ClassicAU · 22-05-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

A Spoon engine, t66 turbo with nos and a MoTeC system exhaust.

LOL, thats quote of the day in my book. Good one!

JimmyJ · 22-05-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot xr6

Sounds like a decent supercharger would be a good option here. Seriously, unless you are planning on spending a lot of time researching and a lot of time with your car off the road then it might be good to readjust your target.

If you're completely set on NA, then 160-170 rwkW would be a reasonably attainable target. If >200rwkW is a must, then forced induction is the most practical (by far) solution. Just budget for a solidly upgraded drivetrain as well.

Give us some more insight into what you really want to achieve so that we can point you in a direction that you're most happy with.

I'd like to keep it N/A for now, possibly supercharge later. I just want to see what I can get out of it with:

2.5” Exhaust
Extractors
Hi-Flow Air filter or Pod
Bigger air intake
90mm piping from air box to throttle body
78mm throttle body ? (any help here)
Flash/custom tune (later)

and any other small improvments.

Cheers.

StealthAu · 22-05-2007, 01:18 PM

That list should get you around 100rwkws short of your goal

b2tf · 22-05-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockoau

That list should get you around 100rwkws short of your goal

Disagree, with all that and a good tune 150-160rwkw is quite possible.

NeishaXR8_347 · 22-05-2007, 02:52 PM

220rwkw in a N/A 6cyl would require almost 100% Volumetric Efficiency (VE), so to achieve this you would need a better intake manifold which would be a custom made type, and now lets get into the cam side, no cam on the market would get you this power you are after, it would be a custom grind and would have so much duration and lift that with the std valve sizes it would be pointless not to mention need a 4000+ hi-stall or a manual. Cylinder head would need to come off with larger valves and porting done, then to run this big cam to its max it would need more compression so you will need to sort that out aswell, when the cylinder head is off getting the bigger valves and porting you will need to get the pistons notched out for running the bigger cam and larger valves. So add all this up plus the tuning needed and posibly new bigger injectors and if its in your price range then have fun.

NeishaXR8_347 · 22-05-2007, 02:55 PM

It would seriously be less mucking around if you just get the $4000 Powerdyne blower from CAPA. It comes in a kit.

james22 · 22-05-2007, 03:14 PM

I agree, way too hard to pull that power from a 6 N/A. I've done all the usual bolt-on parts to my 8, and I'm still 20rwkw short of what your after

JC · 22-05-2007, 03:54 PM

If you mean 220rwHP, than that's around 160rwkw, and is achievable with headers, exhaust, cam and tune. No point going bigger TB or intake piping, as the head just won't flow enough to require the extra air, and you will lose air velocity, which adversely affects torque (down low).

StealthAu · 22-05-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Disagree, with all that and a good tune 150-160rwkw is quite possible.

You'd need a very happy dyno to make those figures without even touching the head. i stand by my statement

xr8ute · 22-05-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockoau

You'd need a very happy dyno to make those figures without even touching the head. i stand by my statement

So I couldn't make that power on a dyno that was just "marginally" happy?

The AU I6 head flows some pretty good air. If you couldn't make 160rwkw with the std head, then you need to find another tuner and/or cam grinder...

But then, peak rwkw is not everything, so why worry about it?

StealthAu · 22-05-2007, 04:55 PM

I can't see where his list of planned mods mentioned a cam. Yet again I stand by my statement. But your spot on XRUTE peak kws is not everything or what should be your main concern

onfire · 22-05-2007, 08:26 PM

Long story short, buy a V8.

ClassicAU · 23-05-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockoau

I can't see where his list of planned mods mentioned a cam. Yet again I stand by my statement. But your spot on XRUTE peak kws is not everything or what should be your main concern

I totally agree as well. If it were me, and it will be soon enough, i would be going for better low down torque and efficiency in the motor. Personally I dont have any desire to have to rev the guts out of the motor to make good power. I would sacrifice rwkw for better tractability and reponse. With the right cam and a good tune, i feel that the I6 can feel just as gutsy as a Windsor motor anyway. That is my main aim.

Evan

JC · 23-05-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicAU

I totally agree as well. If it were me, and it will be soon enough, i would be going for better low down torque and efficiency in the motor. Personally I dont have any desire to have to rev the guts out of the motor to make good power. I would sacrifice rwkw for better tractability and reponse.

That is a good target; much better to have an increase in torque and power right through the rev range, plus an increase in peak as well, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicAU

With the right cam and a good tune, i feel that the I6 can feel just as gutsy as a Windsor motor anyway. That is my main aim.

Unfortunately, your feeling is wrong, but it's not a bad thing to aim for. A 6 will never feel the same as a V8, unless it's a highly worked V6, but even then it's still those magic 2 cylinders short. You just can't beat the torque generated by a V8, and even if you did manage to get close with an I6, apply the same mods to the V8, and you're behind again.

ClassicAU · 23-05-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Unfortunately, your feeling is wrong, but it's not a bad thing to aim for. A 6 will never feel the same as a V8, unless it's a highly worked V6, but even then it's still those magic 2 cylinders short. You just can't beat the torque generated by a V8, and even if you did manage to get close with an I6, apply the same mods to the V8, and you're behind again.

I know it will never be the same, but i was talking a modified I6 compared to say a stock XR8. It will never have the same aural sensation, but i'm sure you can get a nice shove in the back if done correctly.

stiddy · 23-05-2007, 12:04 PM

I think it can be done... just need to spend the $$$ on it, alot of $$$.

The I6 even though missing the extra 2 cylinders arent far behind the 5L's when both are stock. It dosent take much to whip a baby 5L anyway even if they have a few bolt ons. I know ive embaressed a few.
The extra 2 cylinders only slow them down :P lol
To get the 220rwkw out of a 6, it will require a full rebuild.. and be built high comp. Which will make it a revvy peaky car... and some people like that.. a 6cylinder at 8000rpm would be unreal.
In reality you wouldnt get much change from about $5500-6000 for the bottom end, about $4000-4500 for the head and cam, then ontop you need extractors/exhaust, intake(probably a custom inlet manifold or extreme inlet manifold work), fuel system (pump and injectors), and a good engine management system (Edit), another $3000.
With all your new found power you will need a gearbox to handle that, rebuilt auto or a stronger manual/clutch kit, factor in another $3500 or so.
And it will still scare off most 5L worked or not.

It can be done, its just that no one wants to spend the money, they take the easy way out and go force fed.

NeishaXR8_347 · 23-05-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

I think it can be done... just need to spend the $$$ on it, alot of $$$.

And it will still scare off most 5L worked or not.

It can be done, its just that no one wants to spend the money, they take the easy way out and go force fed.

If you then had someone that spent $13000 on the little "slow" 5litre that worked 6cyl would be way behind, its a never ending debate this one. Yes spending some cash on the 6cyl will get it going BUT spend the same cash on the 5litre and it will still go better

You also mentioned that the extra 2 cylinders just slow it down, completely wrong, it all has to do with the rod ratio's and things not how many cylinders there are, and how much weight its packing in the bottom end and windsors are far lighter in the rotating assembly then the I6, I6's rev slow compared to a 5L windsor.

stiddy · 23-05-2007, 04:21 PM

You missed the sarcasm with the 2 cylinders slowing them down.. I know its wrong, just **** stirring. I love my 8's, dads got an F100 with a 302w in it and I love it. Ive got a 429cu ford big block sitting in my garage.
But the baby windsors need alot spent on them to get them going hard just like the 6's do.
What gets me though is its always "get an 8" or "turbo/supercharge".. you dont have to do that to get a quick car. There is a bigger aftermarket base for the 8's at this stage, give it time and it wont be long till the 6's are right up there. The 6's are becoming more appealing the more our tuners fiddle with them and start unlocking the potential these engines really have.