T6 Territory faster then Typhoon

jabba · 10-02-2006, 08:28 PM

OK Guys, Don't flam me for this, because I know some of you my get a bit off side about the rumor I was told.....I AM NOT GOING TO NAME, NAMES as to who told me.

The story goes the T6 Terri has 245kw (we all know that) and has AWD. The test that Ford have done ended with a result that wipped the F6's butt down the 1/4. It has now got Ford in a spin in what they should do, as to wether or not to detune it some how.......

Tickford Kid · 10-02-2006, 08:29 PM

Territory's have 4.11 diffs in them so anything is possible.

4Vman · 10-02-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

OK Guys, Don't flam me for this, because I know some of you my get a bit off side about the rumor I was told.....I AM NOT GOING TO NAME, NAMES as to who told me.

The story goes the T6 Terri has 245kw (we all know that) and has AWD. The test that Ford have done ended with a result that wipped the F6's butt down the 1/4. It has now got Ford in a spin in what they should do, as to wether or not to detune it some how.......

: Take a deep breath and think about what you just typed logically..................

galaxy xr8 · 10-02-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

: Take a deep breath and think about what you just typed logically..................

Amen to that, lol.

:

jabba · 10-02-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

: Take a deep breath and think about what you just typed logically..................

I will try and dig a bit deeper and try and get more info into it tomorrow for you. But I can say with the up most certainty is, the fella who told me has extremely high contacts with Ford and I have absolutely no reason to doubt him.

4Vman · 10-02-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

I will try and dig a bit deeper and try and get more info into it tomorrow for you. But I can say with the utmost certainty is, the fella who told me has extremely high contacts with Ford and I have absolutely no reason to doubt him.

Hmmm... but think about it logically, The Turbo Territory has much less KW, much less torque, more weight, power sapping AWD driveline, poor aerodynamics..
You'd have to agree, IT DOESNT ADD UP!!!

jabba · 10-02-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hmmm... but think about it logically, The Turbo Territory has much less KW, much less torque, more weight, power sapping AWD driveline, poor aerodynamics..
You'd have to agree, IT DOESNT ADD UP!!!

4Vman, I absloutly agrea. But I will do my best to try and get more info about it tomorrow.

slipper · 10-02-2006, 08:31 PM

TerriTurb has less power, less torque, more weight, more aero drag. Cannot be true. Surely?

XR8 Uterous · 10-02-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slipper

TerriTurb has less power, less torque, more weight, more aero drag. Cannot be true. Surely?

Exactly

Focused · 10-02-2006, 08:44 PM

it is a ford

XR8 Uterous · 10-02-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marco351

it is a ford

Must be a joke...

jabba · 10-02-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slipper

TerriTurb has less power, less torque, more weight, more aero drag. Cannot be true. Surely?

The F6 has less power and more weight and more drag then the R8 Clubbie and the F6 is faster, am I right..... there could be a chance that the Terri may do the 1/4 quicker then the F6 due to AWD being quicker of the line.

4Vman · 10-02-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

The F6 has less power and more weight and more drag then the R8 Clubbie and the F6 is faster, am I right..... there could be a chance that the Terri may do the 1/4 quicker then the F6 due to AWD being quicker of the line.

AWD will rob more power than RWD (more diffs and driveline drag).
The RWD terri's are quicker than the AWD ones.
If the turbo terri cracks a 15 i'll be surprised and wrapped cause im going to get one next year but it wont be faster tha an XR6T let alone a F6!!!

Redrum · 11-02-2006, 04:37 PM

Just doesn't sound right. Was speaking to the head of suspension Product Engineering FoMoCo, can't recall his name, nice bloke, and he was tryng to sell me on the turbo territory, after I told him I drive a T. He said the suspension is better on that than my T........

ClevlndStemer · 10-02-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

The F6 has less power and more weight and more drag then the R8 Clubbie and the F6 is faster, am I right..... there could be a chance that the Terri may do the 1/4 quicker then the F6 due to AWD being quicker of the line.

its not power that gets it moving it is TORQUE!! 550nm of it

paulvdb · 10-02-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

its not power that gets it moving it is TORQUE!! 550nm of it

The Turbo Tezza only has 480nm so how will the Typhoon get hosed?

ClevlndStemer · 10-02-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulvdb

The Turbo Tezza only has 480nm so how will the Typhoon get hosed?

it won't...simple

chevypower · 11-02-2006, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

its not power that gets it moving it is TORQUE!! 550nm of it

Generally speaking, Torque affects driveability and performance, but fast acceleration is mainly due to power (kws) even across the whole rev range, it's the kws - haven't seen too many big diesels win drag races from having loads of torque.

If the Territory turbo has 4.11 ratio final drive, and the XR6 Turbo has 3.46:1 - i would suspect the XR6 to still be quicker in acceleration, but I could understand IF the Territory beats it, at least off the line

4Vman · 11-02-2006, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Generally speaking, Torque affects driveability and performance, but fast acceleration is mainly due to power (kws) even across the whole rev range, it's the kws - haven't seen too many big diesels win drag races from having loads of torque.

If the Territory turbo has 4.11 ratio final drive, and the XR6 Turbo has 3.46:1 - i would suspect the XR6 to still be quicker in acceleration, but I could understand IF the Territory beats it, at least off the line

Dont forget the respective rolling diameter of the tyres fitted to the terri is larger than that of the XR6T which would counter the lower diff ratio.

Steffo · 11-02-2006, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Generally speaking, Torque affects driveability and performance, but fast acceleration is mainly due to power (kws) even across the whole rev range, it's the kws - haven't seen too many big diesels win drag races from having loads of torque.

If the Territory turbo has 4.11 ratio final drive, and the XR6 Turbo has 3.46:1 - i would suspect the XR6 to still be quicker in acceleration, but I could understand IF the Territory beats it, at least off the line

It's the power curve. Not the kilowatt's alone. It takes both.

Diesel's aren't very fast because their power curves are crap. The torque curves may be excellent, but the power all comes on at pretty much max revs, and then you have to change gears.

Jeremy Clarkson described it perfectly when he was driving the Jaguar S-Type Diesel around the Nurburgring on Top Gear...

Saying something like "It doesn't FEEL like it has 206bhp... the problem with it being a diesel is that all the power comes at the end of the rev range, right up close to redline..." and then he was describing it further... "nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing... ooooh 206bhp!!!... change gears... nothing nothing nothing..."

Typhoon has an ultra flat torque curve, 550Nm from 2000 to 4250rpm and no less then 440Nm anywhere in the rev range (idle to 6000rpm cut). But that torque curve combined with its power curve is what makes it fast.

As for a 245kW Territory being faster then a Typhoon. A rumour is all that it can be. Change the 245 to 445kW and I'd believe it.

EFFalcon · 10-02-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

The F6 has less power and more weight and more drag then the R8 Clubbie and the F6 is faster, am I right..... there could be a chance that the Terri may do the 1/4 quicker then the F6 due to AWD being quicker of the line.

you forgot to mention you're comparing an n/a vehicle to a turbo vehicle.
power/torque curves tell more then the factory specs.
comparing 2 near identical engines in 2 completely different bodies is completely different to the F6/R8 comparison.

slipper · 10-02-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

The F6 has less power and more weight and more drag then the R8 Clubbie and the F6 is faster, am I right..... there could be a chance that the Terri may do the 1/4 quicker then the F6 due to AWD being quicker of the line.

Typhoon has more torque and lower gearing, both of which win races.
WRT the AWD thing, this is the same argument you get from WRX owners before you spank them at the strip:
"My car has AWD, so I don't have to worry about wheelspin"
That is true, but the RWD car is not concerned with wheelspin beyond the 60" mark either (unless the driver is a total wombat).

Citric GT · 10-02-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slipper

Typhoon has more torque and lower gearing, both of which win races.

Nope. Terri has lower gearing.

slipper · 10-02-2006, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Nope. Terri has lower gearing.

I concede that point.
I forgot about the low AWD diff ratio (3.46 vs 2.73). Taking tyre sizes into account, the 18" Terri has ~15% lower gearing. Think that will overcome ~15% more kerb weight AND the better aero and less driveline losses of the F6? I don't, because there is still the matter of 15% better torque output in the latter.

Josh_XC · 10-02-2006, 08:35 PM

I dont think its true, although if it is true it will be interesting what ford does as they will sure will not release a Territory that is faster the the phoon.