Falcons towing Falcons - Legalities

zlcrazy · 03-08-2018, 06:55 PM

Hi all

As the headline reads I am curious about such sights.

I regularly see Falcons (An Commodores) towing similar weighted vehicles on car trailers. Some of these tow cars are only fitted with 1600kg tow bars. Even if they were fitted with the 2300kg tow bars surely they still are overloaded.

Surely this is illegal and quite dangerous.

So what are peoples thoughts on this here? I ask as I was considering buying an AU Falcon/Fairmont for such use but don't want to break the law.

Any input must appreciated :-)

falconhell74 · 03-08-2018, 07:05 PM

Not sure in other states but in WA its illegal to tow a falcon/ commodore model from about 2000 on wards EG ; Au falcon to present due to vehicle weight as I tried to hire one about a month back and was told that I will need to hire a tilt tray.

Crazy Dazz · 06-08-2018, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconhell74

Not sure in other states but in WA its illegal to tow a falcon/ commodore model

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconhell74

Au falcon to present due to vehicle weight as I tried to hire one about a month back

You tried to hire an AU?
Well if you get desperate, give me a call.

Jack91 · 03-08-2018, 07:06 PM

I looked into all this to tow a race car around. Basically you need 3+ tonne towing. The cheapest cars that have that are old range rovers and landrovers, otherwise new fourbies are mostly 3t or more towing. Even most 80 series cruisers (before 96 I think) only do 2500kg. Of course though if you have 3t towing on, say, a new ranger, I dont see how the GVM would manage to come in under 4.5t with a loaded car, needing a truck license.
So yeah, I bought an F350.

prydey · 03-08-2018, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack91

Of course though if you have 3t towing on, say, a new ranger, I dont see how the GVM would manage to come in under 4.5t with a loaded car, needing a truck license.

not quite. The GVM is the rating for the max weight of the tow vehicle, not the total combined weight. a car licence is fine, using a Ranger towing 3t.

jstanovic · 03-08-2018, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack91

I looked into all this to tow a race car around. Basically you need 3+ tonne towing. The cheapest cars that have that are old range rovers and landrovers, otherwise new fourbies are mostly 3t or more towing. Even most 80 series cruisers (before 96 I think) only do 2500kg. Of course though if you have 3t towing on, say, a new ranger, I dont see how the GVM would manage to come in under 4.5t with a loaded car, needing a truck license.
So yeah, I bought an F350.

Not quite.

The 4.5t GVM (gross vehicle mass) only refers to the max weight of a vehicle you can drive on a standard drivers licence. Over 4.5t requires a truck licence.

GCM (gross combination mass) refers to the max weight of car and trailer. Ranger has a 6t GCM so if the Ranger weighs 3t (including fuel, passengers, Bull bar etc) it can legally tow 3t.

prydey · 03-08-2018, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstanovic

GCM (gross combination mass) refers to the max weight of car and trailer. Ranger has a 6t GCM so if the Ranger weighs 3t (including fuel, passengers, Bull bar, towball mass etc) it can legally tow 3t.

added the bold bit

Trevor 57 · 06-08-2018, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Not quite.

The 4.5t GVM (gross vehicle mass) only refers to the max weight of a vehicle you can drive on a standard drivers licence. Over 4.5t requires a truck licence.

so, every old fart towing a caravan needs a truck licence - I think NOT. Prydey is absolutely correct, check your facts

jstanovic · 07-08-2018, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

so, every old fart towing a caravan needs a truck licence - I think NOT. Prydey is absolutely correct, check your facts

Hi Trev, I think you misunderstood my post as I am saying the same as Prydey. My first paragraph clearly says about single vehicle weights (GVM), the second talks about towing (GCM).

**GasoLane** · 07-08-2018, 09:59 AM

If the thread title was Falcons towing Falcons - Illegalities, I could post this......................but I wont

**PG2** · 06-08-2018, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Not quite.

The 4.5t GVM (gross vehicle mass) only refers to the max weight of a vehicle you can drive on a standard drivers licence. Over 4.5t requires a truck licence.

GCM (gross combination mass) refers to the max weight of car and trailer. Ranger has a 6t GCM so if the Ranger weighs 3t (including fuel, passengers, Bull bar etc) it can legally tow 3t.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

so, every old fart towing a caravan needs a truck licence - I think NOT. Prydey is absolutely correct, check your facts

?????

Am I missing something here Big Trev? From what I'm reading jstanovic has said that you can't drive a vehicle with a GVM over 4.5t with a standard licence. As far as I know that is true.

Jack91 · 03-08-2018, 07:07 PM

Your other option is a gypsy trailer, but they look a bit shonky and if its for a race car etc, if you crash at the track, youre boned.

pcman · 03-08-2018, 07:32 PM

i have towed a bf wagon behind my ba sedan 200km trip, no issues, 500kg tare trailer 1700kg car, so just legal on a 2300kg towbar, trailer has electric brakes so still towed and stopped fine, in saying this on a regular basis i wouldn't recommend it

Blue Roo · 03-08-2018, 07:58 PM

I have towed 2 tonnes braked, behind my FG F6 Ute for 400 km and never had a problem.

Warrenk · 03-08-2018, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcman

i have towed a bf wagon behind my ba sedan 200km trip, no issues, 500kg tare trailer 1700kg car, so just legal on a 2300kg towbar, trailer has electric brakes so still towed and stopped fine, in saying this on a regular basis i wouldn't recommend it

That overall weight might be legal for towing behind the Falcon, but I bet the car trailer had only ATM of 2000kg which would have made overall combination illegal

Warren

pcman · 04-08-2018, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrenk

That overall weight might be legal for towing behind the Falcon, but I bet the car trailer had only ATM of 2000kg which would have made overall combination illegal

Warren

nope trailer is legal for 2800kg

**Gothefalcon** · 04-08-2018, 10:12 PM

Ford say to enable the Falcon's tow capacity to be lifted to 2300kg... you need the combination of the heavy duty towbar AND a weight distributing hitch. (a suitably braked trailer is also required)
A Falcon fitted with only a heavy duty towbar (no WDH), is only rated at a 1600kg tow capacity.

So even if your State authority may not mention the need for a WDH... technically, if you tow between 1600 & 2300kg without a WDH (& suitable trailer), you are exceeding the manufacturer's stated ratings... and could fall foul of the law (if noticed) and/or your insurance cover (if called upon).

A WDH (correctly fitted) helps to ensure that the total ball weight is not exceeded. I personally don't use a WDH, but have large air bags fitted on the rear leaves of my wagon (as part of a self levelling rear suspension set-up), which performs the same task (& my insurance co is happy with that)

Either way... you also need to make sure that the weight on the trailer is distributed correctly (too far forward = too much weight on the ball... too far back = not enough)

I've towed plenty of cars behind many Falcons, safely and legally, over many years... but to do it, there's a bit more to it than just throwing a car trailer on your towbar, and a car up on the trailer.

D

prydey · 04-08-2018, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

A WDH (correctly fitted) helps to ensure that the total ball weight is not exceeded.

a WDH has no effect on tow ball mass. it simply redistributes some of the weight from being supported by the rear axle, on to the front axle (and a small amount back to the trailer axle). static tow ball mass remains.

it is also critical to only restore a MAX of 100% of the lost front axle load, with many manufacturers now recommending 50%.

Sox · 04-08-2018, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

I personally don't use a WDH, but have large air bags fitted on the rear leaves of my wagon (as part of a self levelling rear suspension set-up), which performs the same task (& my insurance co is happy with that)

Further to the above correction by prydey, air bags do not perform the same task as a WDH.
Air bags only reduce rear sag on the tow vehicle.
A WDH redistributes some of the weight from the rear axle to the front, therefore reducing rear sag, and restoring some steering weight and more balanced braking.

prydey · 04-08-2018, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

but have large air bags fitted on the rear leaves of my wagon

i'm sure you know what you are doing, but I was under the impression airbags with leaf springs was a bit of a recipe for bending the chassis. reason being the airbag is adding an additional load point where the chassis wasn't designed to have one. it no doubt depends on the load behind the axle and the amount of air being used in the airbag.

prydey · 03-08-2018, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zlcrazy

Some of these tow cars are only fitted with 1600kg tow bars. Even if they were fitted with the 2300kg tow bars surely they still are overloaded.

Surely this is illegal and quite dangerous.

something people may not be aware of is that the manufacturers also specify maximum axle loads as well as maximum overall weights for the cars. If you are just on your own in the car towing a car on a car trailer, you are unlikely to be over the max overall weight (GVM) for the tow car, but depending on the ball weight on the trailer, you could be getting pretty close to the max rear axle load, esp if you have a bit of extra gear in the boot.

its unlikely, but just thought i'd mention it as many people think as long as its within the rated tow capacity, all is dandy.

when towing you have to keep in mind the weight of the trailer on the ball (tow ball mass) becomes part of the car's payload and that you don't exceed the GVM rating or axle weights. you also have to make sure the tow ball mass is below the max rating of the tow bar, the towed mass is below the max rating of the tow vehicle and the trailer weight is within the trailers max load rating (ATM).

Ben73 · 03-08-2018, 09:14 PM

Falcon towing Falcon? That's nothing. Although it made me think of this picture.
I'd always make sure the tow car can handle the job. It's not worth the risk

stock1991 · 03-08-2018, 09:24 PM

wow, I would describe that as unceremoniously unloaded

prydey · 03-08-2018, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Falcon towing Falcon? That's nothing. Although it made me think of this picture.
I'd always make sure the tow car can handle the job. It's not worth the risk

image

image

image

given the lack of 'sag' in the tow car rear end, they either have very little tow ball mass, which is a recipe for disaster when towing something that heavy, or they are using a weight distribution hitch with way too much tension, which is also a recipe for disaster. never mind the fact that its comprehensively overweight.

Tassie f100 · 04-08-2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Falcon towing Falcon? That's nothing. Although it made me think of this picture.
I'd always make sure the tow car can handle the job. It's not worth the risk

image

image

image

Yeah,if the Landcruiser in photo 1 had been loaded 30-40 cms further forward on the trailer,to give a bit of ball weight,photo,s 2&3 would not have been taken

roKWiz · 04-08-2018, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Falcon towing Falcon? That's nothing. Although it made me think of this picture.
I'd always make sure the tow car can handle the job. It's not worth the risk

Curious how you found the sequence of pictures ?
Was it from another post/forum, were you involved in the towing or was it a passing vehicle which you later came upon the wreckage.

I don't know the story.

Ben73 · 05-08-2018, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Curious how you found the sequence of pictures ?
Was it from another post/forum, were you involved in the towing or was it a passing vehicle which you later came upon the wreckage.

I don't know the story.

Facebook.
They were posted in that sequence and it was said that they binned it while towing.
I know that area and the direction they are driving does head towards bushland with high speed limits. Other direction is the city will slow limits. Probably a good chance it is exactly what it looks like.

arronm · 03-08-2018, 09:52 PM

I would tow that landcruiser with my territory , but not with that old falcon with crap brakes and skinny tyres.. I have scales for setting up ball weight.

Its all good until you need to STOP...

prydey · 03-08-2018, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Its all good until you need to STOP...

or turn a corner on a wet road. that pic looks like there would be very little resistance to lateral loads on the rear axle.

arronm · 03-08-2018, 10:30 PM

Yep, definitely need to tow with 4wd or AWD..