Peugot-Citroen in Talks to Buy Opel Vauxhall.

[csv8]

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/insi...l-and-vauxhall

[ozrunner]

Noticed this earlier.

Have to wonder if the deal goes through what it may mean for the future supply of clayton Commodoes to Holden and even whether the name change will stay.

PSA may have no problem exporting PSA Opel's but not as GM Commodores for obvious reasons.

Could be interesting times ahead for Holden.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

PSA may have no problem exporting PSA Opel's but not as GM Commodores for obvious reasons.

Could be interesting times ahead for Holden.

Indeed if this goes through it could be the end for Commodore

[Crazy Dazz]

I don't pay much attention to GM, but I have noticed they are back selling the Astra, which I assume means that Opel has bailed from Australia?

My understanding was that the new commode was a Chinese Buick.

I've never really understood why GM persisted with the Vauxhall name? With a few exceptions (like the Commode) they were just flogging RHD Opels.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I don't pay much attention to GM, but I have noticed they are back selling the Astra, which I assume means that Opel has bailed from Australia?

My understanding was that the new commode was a Chinese Buick.

I've never really understood why GM persisted with the Vauxhall name? With a few exceptions (like the Commode) they were just flogging RHD Opels.

Out of the top ten best selling cars in UK this January, Vauxhall models rated 5th & 7th, that's why the brand persists.
http://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-m...-uk-right-now/

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Pedro

Out of the top ten best selling cars in UK this January, Vauxhall models rated 5th & 7th, that's why the brand persists.
http://www.whatcar.com/news/the-10-m...-uk-right-now/

Oh that's brilliant, absolute gold.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I don't pay much attention to GM, but I have noticed they are back selling the Astra, which I assume means that Opel has bailed from Australia?

My understanding was that the new commode was a Chinese Buick.

I've never really understood why GM persisted with the Vauxhall name? With a few exceptions (like the Commode) they were just flogging RHD Opels.

The new Commodore is an Opel Insignia, but it shares a platform with a Buick model, not sure which one though. There's a few built off that platform.

There will be supply agreements in place for the future, but when they expire not sure what will happen there. I'm sure whatever input Holden had in the new one (having a v6 available was one) might not even be considered, so PSA might say you get it as is and bad luck if the things you want aren't available. That's if Commodore even survives that long.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The new Commodore is an Opel Insignia, but it shares a platform with a Buick model, not sure which one though. There's a few built off that platform.

There will be supply agreements in place for the future, but when they expire not sure what will happen there. I'm sure whatever input Holden had in the new one (having a v6 available was one) might not even be considered, so PSA might say you get it as is and bad luck if the things you want aren't available. That's if Commodore even survives that long.

I don't know what Platform the new Insignia will be built on, but you can practically guarantee that like the Epsilon it will be a global platform.
So yes it will be built in Germany, also China, Korea, and the Americas.

Of course Holden want to claim it will be "German Engineered," nobody wants to admit to selling Chinese Knockoffs, but apparently if they want a V6 it will have to come from China or the Americas.

Understand that just because GM wants to sell "Opel" doesn't mean they hand over everything. I imagine they would keep their Chinese operations.

I also wouldn't worry about the ongoing sharing of platforms or components.
Ford, Mazda, Land Rover, and Volvo are still using each others bits & bobs, long after going their separate ways.

[MethodX]

Gawd I hope not.
Don't want Opel going to those French Tosspot mobiles.

Psa can go to the chinese like their scooter division.

[Sabantien]

They could replace the Commodore with the 508.

Look, it's even got a lion on the front!

[roddy1960]

G'day , Our groundsman at work is French born and French to the eyeballs in attitude..I'll let you decide if that's good or bad.. Never shuts up about how good Citroen is...What does he drive ?...A 2010 Ford Focus he bought brand new...
This will be an interesting thing to watch to see if it happens and if it does what goes in the Opel range..Maybe the Insignia aka Commodore might not be as assured as some thought just yet...Cheers Rod..

[Nikked]

if this goes ahead...i wonder if it will involve a push for Chevrolet & Buick into opal territory?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

if this goes ahead...i wonder if it will involve a push for Chevrolet & Buick into opal territory?

Chevrolet pulled out of Europe a couple of years ago due to dismal sales. Tarnished brand over there. Not sure about Buick though, not sure if they are sold in Europe. I don't think so.

[Burnout]

Let them buy it - I want to see if the French can make a truly ugly Commodore...

[XRtowcar]

So GM are closing Holden manufacturing in Australia after making a profit in 2015-16 of 128M and are buying cars from a loss making subsiduary that has lost $15billion in the last 16 years. No wonder they can make the cars cheaper there.

[Express]

Future Commodore to get French accent as Peugeot-Citroen moves in on Opel


21 February, 2017

Joshua Dowling
News Corp Australia Network


HOLDEN is on the brink of its biggest upheaval since it announced it would stop making cars in Australia.


Opel, the German division of General Motors — which is supposed to supply one third of Holden’s future imported car line-up from next year — is a pen stroke away from being sold to French car maker Peugeot-Citroen.

The deal almost happened nine years ago in the grip of the Global Financial Crisis, but US giant General Motors decided to keep Opel at the eleventh hour.

However, since then, Opel has lost a staggering $9 billion and now GM wants out.

When fresh talks between GM and Peugeot-Citroen surfaced last week, analysts initially said the deal was a slim chance of going ahead, as it had fallen over before.



Holden sources the current Astra hatch from Opel, but the next model could have a French accent. Picture: Supplied


However, reports out of Europe over the weekend claim a deal for Peugeot-Citroen to buy Opel could be signed as early as this Thursday for an estimated $2 billion.

If it goes ahead, Holden will initially continue to source the Opel Astra from the UK and the next generation Commodore (badged as an Opel Insignia in Germany) would still arrive as planned in March 2018, says Holden.

Peugeot-Citroen says it intends to keep Opel as a separate brand, in a deal that would see the three badges combined become the biggest automotive company in Europe after Volkswagen.

However, the next generation of Opel cars Holden sources from 2025 onwards are likely to be radically different once Peugeot-Citroen starts to rationalise the model range to cut costs.

The biggest threat to Holden — if the Peugeot-Citroen deal goes ahead — is that it will lose its influence with key international decision makers, and eventually weaken the Holden line-up.

For example, Opel in Germany added a V6 to the imported 2018 Commodore purely at the request of Holden — but only after Detroit rubber-stamped millions of dollars in extra investment to make it happen.

The 2018 Commodore was only supposed to have four-cylinder engines, but Holden begged for a V6 to avoid a buyer backlash in Australia.



The 2018 Holden Commodore from Opel in Germany is due in March 2018, but its replacement in the mid 2020s could be French. Picture: Supplied.


Given Holden’s shrinking market share in a country that represents just 2 per cent of global car sales, Holden won’t have anywhere near as much leverage with Peugeot-Citroen to tailor cars to suit Australian conditions.

A statement from Holden said: “(General Motors) remains committed to the Holden brand in Australia and we don’t expect any changes to Holden’s vehicle portfolio. Right now we are focused on ramping up Astra volume and preparing to launch the fantastic next-generation Commodore in 2018”.

While it will be business as usual in Holden showrooms over the next few years, the outlook from the mid 2020s is unclear.

Peugeot and Citroen have demonstrated a remarkable lack of understanding of the highly competitive Australian market — even though Citroens have been sold here since 1923, almost three decades before Holden was established as a car manufacturer.

A Citroen was also the first car to complete a lap of Australia, in 1925, the same year Ford established manufacturing in Geelong.

Despite their early promise, both French brands have recorded comparatively minuscule sales through numerous independent Australian distributors over the decades.

The French deal would force Holden to rely more heavily on SUVs out of the US and South Korea and utes out of Thailand, accounting for two-thirds of the model range.

The uncertainty around Holden’s future European car line-up comes as its market share hit a record low in 2016 after posting the lowest sales in 23 years.



The famous “lightning” Opel badge could soon be owned by the Peugeot-Citroen group. Picture: AP Photo/Martin Meissner.



Why GM wants to sell Opel:

— Opel has lost $9 billion since the GFC.

— European car sales aren’t growing.

— Small cars are less profitable than SUVs and utes.


What does it mean for Holden:

— In the short term, Holden’s showroom won’t look any different.

— But Peugeot-Citroen will merge some Opel models with its own from the early to mid 2020s.

— Holden won’t have as much leverage when it comes to negotiating changes to its European Opel cars to suit Australian tastes.


What are the chances of the deal going ahead?

— Last week, analysts said the chances were slim.

— This deal fell over nine years ago, in the wake of the GFC.

— Now experts predict a deal could be signed this Thursday.



This reporter is on Twit: @JoshuaDowling



.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...aign=editorial



.

[Sprintey]

In summary, GM inflicts "sovereign risk" on GM-H.

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

So GM are closing Holden manufacturing in Australia after making a profit in 2015-16 of 128M and are buying cars from a loss making subsiduary that has lost $15billion in the last 16 years. No wonder they can make the cars cheaper there.

Logic doesn't apply to it. Imagine if Holden now keeps Elizabeth going, imagine the reprieve the Commodore would get...

Originally Posted by MethodX

Gawd I hope not.
Don't want Opel going to those French Tosspot mobiles.

Psa can go to the chinese like their scooter division.

We all know what happened the last time the French took some German industry... Actually, it's perplexing: the Euro made more affordable German produce by around 30% compared to the DM, and it's been German firms on a whirlwind of sales conquest and acquisition (at the price of the hopes of a generation in the PIIGS who were overpriced by the Euro) - how on earth did the French get the coin to put an offer in for Opel??

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Chevrolet pulled out of Europe a couple of years ago due to dismal sales. Tarnished brand over there. Not sure about Buick though, not sure if they are sold in Europe. I don't think so.

Remember how GM sponsored a major European soccer team, then wasn't selling cars there despite the excellent brand visibility, lol, how do they do it??

[Sprintey]

Paging Guido Dumarey, paging Guido Dumarey...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-0...32?pfmredir=sm

(from 2016)

[stig_3754]

[Bossxr8]

May as well ditch the Holden name and make it Chevrolet.

I'd say this will also largely kill off their engineering division which is only small now anyway, but they are doing some work for the 2018 Commode.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

May as well ditch the Holden name and make it Chevrolet.

This is a bad idea. Think of all the aftermarket badge manufacturers and sellers who will go out of business once holdens start already coming with chev badges!

However, these same chev badge tossers are probably likely to put a Holden badge on an actual Chev.

[Vesper Martini]

So why do PSA want to buy Opel?
Are they doing that well since their 6.5 billion loss in 2012 I read they sell more cars into China than they do in France now

[Bossxr8]

What a fiasco that was. Multi multi million sponsorship and pulled the plug not long after? Good old GM.

[Bill M]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39016604

http://www.reuters.com/article/opel-...-idUSB4N1DJ02Q

Both British and German govts will be talking to the PSA boss.

There is a novel idea, governments that wants to keep manufacturing.

The Commode will be safe for this model cycle but after that it would depend on whats on offer and what can be negotiated.
Not that I give a Rattus Culus.
Bill.

[Sprint XR8]

French takeover of future Holden Commodore's maker a 'done deal': report

THE next Holden Commodore could be in French hands by as early as Monday, with media reports saying a PSA Group takeover of GM's European division, Opel, is about to be confirmed.

Reuters reported exclusively last night that two independent sources had confirmed the PSA Group board -- which controls French carmakers Citroen and Peugeot -- had given its approval to a takeover after settling on how the loss-making European arm of US carmaker General Motors would be broken up between the two.

Details of the talks between the two surfaced last month. It includes the takeover of Vauxhall, the British equivalent of Holden and one of the main driving forces behind GM's global right-hand drive conversion projects.

According to Reuters, the deal struck between the two carmakers includes "non-compete" agreements that will block Opel's new owners from competing against Chevrolet-badged cars in regions including China and "other overseas markets".

What the deal struck means for Australia isn't yet clear -- Holden already sources the Opel-built Astra small hatchback as a cornerstone of its passenger car line-up, and from next year it plans to add the German-made Opel Insignia to its showrooms, rebadged as a Commodore.

Holden told Wheels this morning that it would not comment on speculation.

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/17...ne-deal-report

[Trump]

It's a done deal:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7592621.html

[.:4:.]

Ha. Does that mean the put a chev badge on a commodore will turn into putting a pug badge on the new commodore?

[Bossxr8]

Very interesting to see how this will effect Holden now that most of their cars are rebadged opels.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Very interesting to see how this will effect Holden now that most of their cars are rebadged opels.

Daewoo still have similar sized alternatives..

[Bossxr8]

No doubt korea is the alternative. The new astra sedan will come from korea and is called a cruze is all other markets.