|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
08-06-2013, 09:16 PM | #1 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
|
What a shame it has taken something as significant as Ford announcing its factory closures for people to start coming out and stating the bleeding obvious.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B830021072F Quote:
That Golf assembly plant sounds interesting though.
__________________
Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
|||
3 users like this post: |
08-06-2013, 09:24 PM | #2 | ||
Sales Representative
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Young
Posts: 5,314
|
Increase the taxes on imports, and help the locals... sounds simple, and yet our governments for the last however many decades just cannot see this...
__________________
Project InfernoSR - Back Burner Project FeralTerra - No longer Project Fairmont Prodigy - Sold Thanks go to: MY WIFE! Bathurst Brakepro Undacar eBay!! |
||
08-06-2013, 10:06 PM | #3 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 185
|
Increasing taxes on the imports would have the same effect as closing the gate after the horse has bolted. May as well just give up and stop supporting the car industry and find something else this country can do. I hear we are very good at digging up dirt and sending it overseas.
|
||
3 users like this post: |
09-06-2013, 03:56 PM | #4 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
|
Quote:
Nothing is over til it's over and times and/or decisions change every day just like they have in the past Maybe this is the wake up call the brain dead pollies needed to change the situation for the better |
|||
09-06-2013, 04:13 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,989
|
there is a big difference between open market fair and reciprocal trade agreements and being an automotive dumping ground........
|
||
09-06-2013, 04:33 PM | #6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,409
|
Quote:
Thailand is a joke, the place is set up to be an export nation with zero intent of importing anything from Australia. |
|||
This user likes this post: |
09-06-2013, 11:39 AM | #7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
|
Quote:
Except now the audience does know better...they know what they've been missing out on. I imagine some of you would be old enough to remember the seventies and the first time you either bought or went for a ride in a friends or family members "funny foreign car", and been amazed at the standard features...disc brakes, AM/FM stereo, rear window demister, air conditioning, cloth interiors...they seem simple things now, but back then they were options on Australian cars, and the cheap stuff that people bought just didn't have what foreign cars had as standard. The makers here didn't have to try harder, as they assumed they would always be protected by tariffs and taxes. Sometimes...even today with the FG when compared to overseas cars...the foreign competition has features that simply don't exist in our home grown big sedans. Strongly protecting our industry to force people to buy Australian cars like "the good old days"...? Be careful what you wish for.. |
|||
09-06-2013, 12:14 PM | #8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,989
|
Quote:
what you are obviously blind too see the button plan was not dynamic and allow for changes on the world manuf scene... bye bye aus manuf... |
|||
09-06-2013, 01:46 PM | #9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Quote:
|
|||
09-06-2013, 01:57 PM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
|
A clever businessman...one who runs a long lasting and profitable organisation that is...can face up to reality and realise there are some things he just can't do himself, so he will do one of two things: employ someone to develop and do it for him, or if that isn't cost effective, hire some outside firm to do efficiently it for him at a substantially lower cost.
No real difference between a business and running a country. If we can't effectively and cheaply make the cars the customer obviously wants, then we can do as other small countries do and pick and choose the best from around the world to supply our needs. Playing on tradition or feeling the need to keep propping up an industry that honestly there is nothing magical about having in your country (making your own cars) doesn't face reality. |
||
09-06-2013, 02:20 PM | #11 | ||
The One Who Knocks
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kalgoorlie
Posts: 1,196
|
But people are calling for/wishing that the government had built a figurative wall around Australia and not allowed any imports in, in the first place. A captive market is easy to please...
|
||
This user likes this post: |
09-06-2013, 03:36 PM | #12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
|
Quote:
As I said, go back to the seventies when protectionism of the local car industry was high...our neighbour, a Holden man through and through, had just bought his latest Kingswood wagon, a V8 Vacationer. My old man within a week of this bought our latest car, a Mazda 929 wagon, top of the line. The 929 had air con, a floor shift four speed, and AM/FM radio cassette fitted from the factory with four, count 'em four speakers (and the aerial concealed in the windscreen glass!), and window tinting amongst other standard fittings. The neighbour had his faith badly shaken when he took my old mans car for a drive...he was seriously wondering if his next car would be a Holden at all. Britain went through it with their car industry, yet their industry, after chopping out all the dead wood and getting rid of makes that just couldn't keep up with modern times, is better than ever. Our car makers need to sit down and take a good long hard look at themselves and more importantly what they're competing against and what the public wants, and don't just keep trying to rely on selling cars the old fashioned way which doesn't work anymore: that being multi-generational badge-blind buyers who will just unquestioningly and automatically trundle down every couple of years and buy a Holden/Falcon just because daddy had one and his daddy had one. |
|||
11-06-2013, 11:29 AM | #13 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 158
|
Quote:
People want to make sure there is a viable alternative other than being force fed imports. Australian new vehicles sales (local + imported) is running at around or just over 1 million per year. As of 2011 (couldn't get my hands on more recent data/stats for this) the ratio of local to imported was 15 % local, 85 % imported. In the USA for the same time was 77% local and 23 % imported. Now I am not sure what the reason for this is other than Americans are more patriotic than we are and will support their local manufacturers. Some other interesting data pulled from VFACTS shows there has been a steady decline in percent of market share for local manufacturers but not a total wipeout. For example as of 1997 Ford had 18% market share at a time when imports had a total share of 48%. Then in 2011 Ford had a 9% market share and imports had 60%. Now the interesting thing here that I expected to see was that Toyota would take up much of the slack but that's not the case. In 1997 Toyota had a 17% share of the market and in 2011 they had just 18% so pretty much status quo for them. The biggest mover and shaker was 'Other' imports so this would be the 'cheap' Chinese, Korean and Indian imports. This is significant as it shows how developing economies have been able to tap into a significant car sales market that is available in Australia. This equates to around 600,000 new car sales being imports. If this were 600,000 new car sales for Australian manufactures there would be no conversations being had about trying to save our auto industry. Reading the letter in this post about getting smarted and developing with technology makes sense if a business case can be made. Why shouldn't we compete with other countries and use our abundant resources and skills and jump ahead of the game. There would be an initial cost outlay no question however the rewards could mean a bright future for Ford, Holden and Toyota and in the end create a much leaner and meaner car industry that could easily compete in the domestic and export markets. Or should we just let the naysayers control our future manufacturing destiny. There is a balance that should/must be struck between import restriction and free trade and it must be on a level playing field. This letter highlights a need for technological improvement in the Aussie auto industry. Money that has been set aside to keep these companies afloat or for so called 'green' innovation should be pushed into these areas as technological advancement in these areas will filter into others across the manufacturing spectrum. Money worth investing I say unless we want to resign ourselves to being a future third world economy. Come on Aussie !! |
|||
This user likes this post: |
10-06-2013, 07:54 AM | #14 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,811
|
Quote:
A Mazda 929 superior to a Holden V8 Vacationer? Just because the 929 had a higher level of factory fitted goodies does not make it a better car. In making that comparison, you left out ride quality and interior space and other important considerations that cannot be overshadowed by aircon and 4 speakers... also, a floor shifter would be a tad impractical in a 6 seater wagon... Last edited by superyob; 10-06-2013 at 08:12 AM. |
|||
10-06-2013, 09:32 AM | #15 | |||
Performance moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
|
Quote:
How would the 626 go towing a caravan or horse float ?? Ahh yes it doesn't matter the 4 speaker system will make up for that !!!
__________________
Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
|||
10-06-2013, 09:56 AM | #16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
|
Horse float or a big caravan?
People don't automatically go for a V8 Falcon or Holden to do that anymore...because of the wide range of vehicles available to us, people go for four wheel drives to do that. Virtually no one buys a Falcon with the express purpose of pulling a double horse float or a 25 foot caravan to go around Australia. We live right on the "migration route" of the grey nomads, as well as horse floats going back and forwards all the time from the coast inland for race meetings/rodeos and the other way as well. I could count on one hand the number of times I've seen a new Falcon towing a big van (or any sized) van or horse float. The market years ago for towing vehicles was made up of clunky four wheel drives for enthusiasts or the man on the land, and "normal" sedans and wagons. If people in the towns and cities wanted to do a lot of things, they'd choose a Falcon or Holden wagon, and tow things and travel in it. Now we have a huge choice of types of vehicles, and people no longer feel they "need" to buy a big Australian sedan to "do everything". They look for a specific vehicle to suit their needs...part of this is the rise of the mid sized SUV as an extremely popular family car. If we threw up the protection barriers to foreign built cars, how do you change the public wanting a huge range of vehicles, when the majority of what "Australian car makers" sell isn't even built here? Try standing up before the world trade organisations and saying "We want protection from foreign built cars...erm...except for this one, and that one, and that one there...but keep all the others out!". Won't happen. can't happen. If Australia tried to strongly protect itself, it would suddenly find retaliatory strikes against our exports with restrictions and taxation on the other end. Anyone who thinks we are a big bad important country is sadly mistaken...we're tiny, we have less people than a lot of large cities overseas, and we don't really matter...the world can do without us. China and India love our coal for example, but they have plenty of their own...they just prefer to do business with a nice stable country like Australia. They could, with a little effort, just stop buying our stuff altogether and it wouldn't trouble them...but it would sure trouble us. Wishing for a compliant public who won't look beyond a Falcon or Commodore is foolish...people now know better and have had decades of exposure to frankly better featured cars from overseas, and if you tried to cut that choice back, they'd bite back even harder against the local stuff in retaliation. |
||
10-06-2013, 11:27 AM | #17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Quote:
|
|||
4 users like this post: |
08-06-2013, 11:01 PM | #18 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,290
|
I can see the headline now "Ford leaving saves holden" the ultimate self sacrifice another victory for ford all hail the great and power ford now lets say 30 hail fords. And pass the collection plate for holden
|
||
08-06-2013, 11:16 PM | #19 | ||
YE-US! Wait. I don't know
Join Date: May 2010
Location: in the turkey...
Posts: 940
|
Bill is switched on. Don't know him myself, but I know people who work for SAE.
Better late than never I suppose. Fingers crossed it filters into Ford reconsidering staying/gov co convincing them to stay/some other scenario where they don't leave.
__________________
"Well. Apparently you're looking for a lion-snake named Harriet." Daily: '06 BF XL Ute,Shockwave Blue, Column Shift, eGas BEAST.
Gone: 77 HZ panel van, 253, column. The Weekender: '06 BF Pursuit, Toxic, lumpy af |
||
4 users like this post: |
08-06-2013, 11:55 PM | #20 | ||
Performance moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St Clair..N.S.W
Posts: 14,875
|
As in before the financial crisis.. Ford was one of the FIRST to do something about its position !!
Could be what's going on here?? After all I doubt Holden is going to make money selling cars people don't want in masses..If they can import much cheaper then there's every chance they'll do ok..Governments the last 30 years don't care about local industry..
__________________
Real cars are not driven by front wheels,real cars lift them!!... BABYS ARE BOTTLE FED, REAL MEN GET BLOWN. Don't be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark...Professionals built the Titanic! Dart 330ci block turbo black pearl EBXR8 482 rwkw.. Daily driver GTE FG.. Projects http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=107711 http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...8+turbo&page=4 |
||
This user likes this post: |
09-06-2013, 12:24 AM | #21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Its a nice idea he has, but theres about 4 times as many germans to buy golfs locally than there is here, and I wonder if the germans have a fair trade agreement that shoots their industry in the foot?? As for robots my bet is they cost a packet to implement and a lot in energy to run.
|
||
09-06-2013, 12:55 AM | #22 | ||
Cynical Idealist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Posts: 1,512
|
All hail robots!
__________________
Your plastic pal who's fun to be with! |
||
09-06-2013, 01:30 AM | #23 | ||
Donating Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,940
|
Population keeps growing, yet technology and globalisation causes us to rely less and less on physical human input. When will it all end!! Are we all going to become beggers on the street one day, or slaves for the top 2% of society???
|
||
09-06-2013, 08:24 AM | #24 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 206
|
We have a FTA with Thailand that is CLEARLY, PLANLY and OBVIOUSLY destroying an Australian industry and costing thousands of jobs and with it throwing many lives into turmoil.
And what is the Australian government doing? ******* nothing! Sickens me beyond words. Last edited by AU1XLS; 11-06-2013 at 01:13 PM. |
||
11-06-2013, 09:23 AM | #25 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,223
|
Quote:
IT IS UP TO THE AUSTRALIAN CONSUMER TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BY REFUSING TO BUY IMPORTED VEHICLES, SPECIFICALLY THOSE FROM THAILAND. THERE IS NO POINT WHINGING ABOUT THE SITUATION THEN GOING OUT AND BUYING A THAI BUILT VEHICLE AND SUPPORTING THE VERY FTA YOU ARE WHINGING ABOUT. WHEN ARE AUSTRALIANS GOING TO WAKE UP???? |
|||
11-06-2013, 12:50 PM | #26 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,170
|
Quote:
If oz had something that suited me I'd buy it no doubt.
__________________
-2011 XR6 Turbo Ute - Lux Pack - M6 -2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander Diesel N Line |
|||
11-06-2013, 12:57 PM | #27 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,235
|
Quote:
If it is that many people changing over then there has to be a reason behind it. If the locals were that good they would sell on their own. Oh and didn't Ford at one stage build a small car here? Soooo is it really the public's fault that Ford closed it's doors or just poor market insight by a 110 yr old car maker?
__________________
"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
|||
09-06-2013, 02:25 PM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
2011g6e not only do we lose car makers, we lose value in technology developed here, we lose employment across the board, we become more dependant upon other countries for goods we can and should be making here , and apart from every thing else, it is wrong on principle to throw our own industry away due to poor trading deals that benefit countries other than our own.
as for the being clever thing i`m betting if we had a real clever and honest fair trade deal between countries our car industries would be kicking on without needing handouts. Uberknee, i don't think that is the general consensus at all, i think the general consensus is that most just want a fair trading deal....as it should be. |
||
09-06-2013, 03:32 PM | #29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,409
|
Bottom line, our Australian auto manufacturing industry has been thrown under a bus because
people want cheap imported vehicles and don't want to support Australian made anymore.. That was in essence the effect of the Button Plan and elimination of Tariffs, Ford and Holden were mortally wounded years ago, it's just that we never realised it until now... |
||
09-06-2013, 05:59 PM | #30 | |||
The One Who Knocks
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kalgoorlie
Posts: 1,196
|
Quote:
A basic Mercedes/BMW/Audi/etc. that sells for peanuts everywhere else is a $100k+ here which keeps it out of most peoples reach. Overall the biggest sellers here are generally Ford/GM/Toyota/Nissan/Mazda with everyone else selling in small volume. So local manufactures still have plenty of opportunity, you look at America where typically Pontiac/Chevy/Ford/Dodge/BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar and several others are all the big volume players. America has a flooded market, every manufacturer in the world sells there yet its still the American brands that sell the biggest due to building the right cars/advertising/etc. Australia really doesn't have it that bad, most of these cars supposedly 'flooding our markets' are priced for footballers, not the average buyer. The way to save local manufacturing is not by making life harder for imports but by local manufacturers building cars that are relevant to the times. 400kw GTS's and blown GTs might appeal to performance enthusiasts by the average buyer either doesn't care or it just ins't practical enough for a modern day family. Rather than focusing on the near dead large car market focus on SUVs that out sell them hand over fist. |
|||
This user likes this post: |