So is it the end of the Holden??

[philbit]

Just spotted this on the net
http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/Hol...68925.html?x=0

[poppa smurf]

well I hope the company is forced to repay the millions that we have given them in support over the years if they do shut the gates..

I really hope they don't....not a fan of the rampaging lion but wouldn't like to see it go either!

[Ford_The_Win]

I absolutely loathe General Motors, but the auto industry in this country is a house of cards, if one goes they all go.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I absolutely loathe General Motors, but the auto industry in this country is a house of cards, if one goes they all go.

+1.

The industry is below critical mass. If any of the three go, the other two will follow shortly after.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by wimpy

well I hope the company is forced to repay the millions that we have given them in support over the years if they do shut the gates..

I really hope they don't....not a fan of the rampaging lion but wouldn't like to see it go either!

Tme to bring back import duty and the same for parts
It is a bluff that Holden doesn't deserve to win

[The Stylist]

I just spotted that article too. Has anyone heard anymore about these comments?

If Holden goes, then that's a lot of pressure on component makers in Aus therefore could Ford survive without Holden?

[csv8]

Sorry..Repost.. I posted earlier..SA Premier in Talks to save Holden..

[Iggypoppin']

It would mean thousands left without a job. What decent Aussie, Holden fan or not, would want that?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

It would mean thousands left without a job. What decent Aussie, Holden fan or not, would want that?

Too right cobba. It's bloody Un-Australian. To think of Aussie mums and dad's by the thousands getting the sack just isn't cricket. Not to mention the death of an Australian nameplate.

As much as I detest GM product in general. GM is as much a vital contributor to the nations automotive industry as Ford is.

[mik]

it is becoming to bloody expensive to manufacture stuff here, it is`nt just car companies packing up shop,
it`s funny govco keep telling everyone how good the economy is...... yes it`s that good we are closing down or relocating to asia.

[Gobes32]

Very dramatic article, do they have anything to base it on?

[Road_Warrior]

The press release from GM is more moderate (I read it on another site), but tell you what, that Gover moron is a first grade ********. He has written today two articles, one about the blue camp one about the red camp. Both are basically about the same thing, but the one about the blue camp he has tried to weave as much negativity into it as he can, whilst the article he wrote about the red camp is glowing and contains no such negativity..

[philbit]

Yep will be sad to see familys suffer from this closure,also if it did happen what would happen to the V8 Supercar racing??? and Bathurst.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The press release from GM is more moderate (I read it on another site), but tell you what, that Gover moron is a first grade ********. He has written today two articles, one about the blue camp one about the red camp. Both are basically about the same thing, but the one about the blue camp he has tried to weave as much negativity into it as he can, whilst the article he wrote about the red camp is glowing and contains no such negativity..

a leopard will never change it`s spots, just like some journo`s.

[Paxton]

If Holden goes, Ford will follow, very quickly. One can not exist without the other, as like it or now, most of the locally produced components in both cars are made in the same factory. Holden is more important to Ford Australia's existence than we all give it credit for.

[Road_Warrior]

Trust GoAuto to do the analysis - could be curtains for the Zeta after 2018:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25798100038A01

“BRUTALLY honest” talks in Detroit between General Motors and Australian manufacturing minister Kim Carr are said to be near to shoring up the long-term future of GM Holden manufacturing and thousands of jobs in Australia.

GM had told government representatives that one of its options was to close its Australian factories.

The American giant is seeking financial assistance in the form of co-investment grants and other commitments from federal and state governments to support two model lines at Holden’s Elizabeth factory in South Australia.

However, it seems increasingly unlikely that one of those models will include another rear-drive, Australian-developed Commodore large car after the life of the next model, the VF, that hits the showrooms in 2014.

Federal manufacturing minister Kim Carr, who went face to face with GM bosses including GM chairman and CEO Dan Akerson in a backroom meeting at the Detroit motor show today, raised the spectre of the demise of the home-grown breed when he later described the current Commodore as an orphan in GM’s model line-up and said that global platforms were a reality for the car industry.

“This is not the 1950s any more,” said Mr Carr. “The fact remains that global platforms are a reality.”

Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux, who also attended the meeting, went further by describing the Australian large-car segment as “niche”, adding that Holden wanted to build cars in mass-selling segments.

Sales of vehicles in the traditional large-car segment plunged more than 21 per cent last year – the latest decline in a steady sales collapse of the once-dominant car class that now comprises just seven per cent of the overall market.

Although Holden’s Commodore made up more than half of the segment, it too slipped 11.6 per cent in 2011, bringing to a close its 15-year run as Australia’s most popular car when it was beaten by the Mazda3 small car.

Mr Devereux described today’s discussions as “brutally honest on both sides”.

He indicated that the first of the Holden models to benefit from any future car agreement with the federal and state governments would go into production in late 2015, with a second model to follow in the second half of the decade.

The VF Commodore is safe, and will retain the rear-drive format when it arrives in about 2014.

But it is increasingly likely that GM is planning to bin that Australian format in favour of one of its global front-drive architectures when the VF’s life is up around 2018-20.

None of the parties would discuss the size of the co-investment assistance being sought by Holden, saying the details were still to be finalised.

Mr Carr pointed to the $3.5 billion car industry transformation fund, carbon tax compensation fund and research and development assistance grants as being the likely source of any support.

South Australian premier Jay Weatherill, who was also involved in the talks, disclosed the parlous state of the local car industry when he said GM had indicated that one of its possible scenarios was to close the Elizabeth plant.

“We are, of course, urging GM not to pursue this course,” he said.

Mr Weatherill said important progress had been made, and the deal was expected to be concluded “in coming weeks”.

He said both he and Mr Carr were not interested in just a rescue package for the car industry, but “a sustainable future”.

One of the cars slated for local production will almost certainly be the next generation of the Cruze small car that is already assembled for local consumption alongside the Commodore at Elizabeth.

Holden designers penned the hatch version of the Cruze, but it remains to be seen what part they and their Melbourne-based engineering counterparts will play in any new model.

Both Mr Carr and Mr Devereux were at pains to say they wanted Holden to retain its strong design and engineering force in Australia, but said that would not necessarily be committed to a next-generation local large car.

Speaking at a joint media conference after the talks, the parties revealed that GM had opened its books on the Australian operation during the discussions.

They spelled out the need for government assistance in Holden’s battle to secure investment from GM head office to sustain the Australian operation in the face of severe competition from other arms of GM keen to grow their own production bases in other countries.

Mr Devereux described the competition for a share of the GM capital investment for manufacturing and product investment as unprecedented.

“Car-makers are investing billions of dollars to develop future vehicles, so it’s critical for Australia to have consistent and competitive long-term policies that make this country an attractive place for General Motors and other companies to continue to invest,” he said.

“The discussions with the minister and the premier have been very positive and productive.

“We’re making good progress in developing a new co-investment plan to help secure a long-term future for Holden and the automotive and manufacturing industry more broadly.

“Holden and GM look forward to working with the governments of Australia on policies and programs to ensure Australia continues to be one of 13 countries in the world that has the ability to design, engineer and build cars.”

Mr Devereux did not rule out another large car to replace the Commodore at Elizabeth, saying Holden could develop and build a fuel-efficient large car.

He said the models in question had not been decided yet and the discussions with the government were about determining the commitment of the local authorities to the Australian car industry.

However, his remarks about wanting to manufacture vehicles in mass-selling market segments – which in Australian terms most likely means the small-car, light-car and compact SUV classes – would indicate a new Commodore is unlikely.

Mr Devereux said Holden was determined to continue the current two-model manufacturing set-up at Elizabeth, saying that if Holden had not cut a deal to produce the Cruze alongside the Commodore and thus increase factory input the whole manufacturing operation would have closed its doors.

Neither of the future locally made Holden vehicles is likely to have an export focus, with Mr Devereux saying the new products would have to be able to survive and be profitable on local sales alone.

Mr Devereux said Holden’s manufacturing operations were currently profitable, and that the company would report a “big profit” for the latest GM financial year, which ended December 31.

The Victorian government was not represented at today’s talks, even though Holden has a major presence in that state, not only with its head office and engineering and design centres, but also a V6 engine factory in Port Melbourne.

Mr Carr resisted the temptation to stick the boots into the Victorian Liberal government, saying all the governments were working together to try to secure the future of the Australian car industry.

He warned that, if the industry was allowed to die, it would be irretrievable, as the cost of re-establishing it would be prohibitive.

He said the loss of the industry would have a devastating affect on manufacturing in general, as the motor industry was at the heart of it.

Mr Carr, who was recently demoted to the manufacturing portfolio, losing his seat in the cabinet, showed he had lost none of his passion for the motor industry in his chat with journalists, saying he wanted the industry to not just survive but to expand once the current exchange rates returned to more normal levels.

“If the exchange rate was about 10 to 15 per cent less, we would be having a totally different discussion,” he said.

Ironically, prime minister Julie Gillard – who booted Mr Carr out of cabinet – was quoted at the head of the official press release.

“We know our economy is transforming, which is why we made manufacturing a key focus of the Tax Forum and Future Jobs Forum and why the PM’s manufacturing taskforce was created,” she was quoted as saying.

“We have our sleeves rolled up, ready to build on this work with industry to ensure manufacturing remains a staple of our economy.”

Mr Carr said the governments were in the process of setting up a working group with GM to pursue more export opportunities for component makers.

Seems as though there's a lot more uncertainty about GM Holden's manufacturing operations and future products than Ford...but you won't hear that from Paul Gover, the Dowling pair or Jez Spinks...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Paxton

If Holden goes, Ford will follow, very quickly. One can not exist without the other, as like it or now, most of the locally produced components in both cars are made in the same factory. Holden is more important to Ford Australia's existence than we all give it credit for.

I hear that Ford is moving quickly to shift parts sourcing off shore and through FAPSA,
this might sound dramatic but "One Ford" suppliers will make Falcon viable where Commodore will struggle.

I have a feeling that all the empty Cruze sales are coming home to roost, there a good reason why Corrola isn't made here...

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

WELL as far as i can see it...ford is still profiting in aus...holden hasnt for some time...and when they did it wasnt there money. Now if we do loose holden here...whts the worst that will happen...we will still have all the imported ford products from euorpe and else where and will slowly loose the falcon and terri which looks likely to happen eventually anyway.
Now what will holden..or GMAH or whatever they are called...what will they sell here....everything organized in aus for sale by holden will end...whats left? they dont import anything good do they?????....its all junk

Holden made a profit in 2010, Frod made a small one as well but gee, I'm thinking Cruze costs more than it's worth.
I think Diesel Territory and right sizing personnel / production has definitely saved Ford's bacon.....

People think Holden are "safe" because they have two shifts producing 485/day,
nothing could be further from the truth and if anything,they could be even more exposed...

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I hear that Ford is moving quickly to shift parts sourcing off shore and through FAPSA,
this might sound dramatic but "One Ford" suppliers will make Falcon viable where Commodore will struggle.

That's very interesting, smart of them.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden made a profit in 2010, Frod made a small one as well but gee, I'm thinking Cruze costs more than it's worth.
I think Diesel Territory and right sizing personnel / production has definitely saved Ford's bacon.....

Definitely agree with you there. They produced the top selling SUV of 2011. A very important market and great news for Ford.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I hear that Ford is moving quickly to shift parts sourcing off shore and through FAPSA,
this might sound dramatic but "One Ford" suppliers will make Falcon viable where Commodore will struggle.

I have a feeling that all the empty Cruze sales are coming home to roost, there a good reason why Corrola isn't made here...

Holden made a profit in 2010, Frod made a small one as well but gee, I'm thinking Cruze costs more than it's worth.
I

Totally opposite, Holden would of closed without Cruze - Holden and the government have said that.

Holden have said today they only want to make cars for mass-market segments with only a focus on local sales - in Australia that means Light Cars, Small Cars and Compact SUVs. Large cars are not in the mix, however I still think they will make Commodore though. So I see this going forward with Holden:

Cruze sedan and hatch
Cruze-based SUV
Commodore sedan and wagon

That's it, no more LWB, and no more exports.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Totally opposite, Holden would of closed without Cruze - Holden and the government have said that.

Umm no, Holden are on record as saying that Cruze would not have been (and would not be) possible without government support.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Totally opposite, Holden would of closed without Cruze - Holden and the government have said that.

Holden have said today they only want to make cars for mass-market segments with only a focus on local sales - in Australia that means Light Cars, Small Cars and Compact SUVs. Large cars are not in the mix, however I still think they will make Commodore though. So I see this going forward with Holden:

Cruze sedan and hatch
Cruze-based SUV
Commodore sedan and wagon

That's it, no more LWB, and no more exports.

The only problem is that Holden is on record as voicing concern that
the +$21,000 Cruze may soon out sell the +$35,000 Commodore...

The Cruze plan was fine and dandy for adding volume to a mostly Commodore
line but now that the tables have turned, the plants combined average
transaction price is much less than Ford's single shift multi product line...

I'm just thinking that Holden's move to "ace" Ford and their Focus plan
has backfired badly and now they may about to go under a bus...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The only problem is that Holden is on record as voicing concern that
the +$21,000 Cruze may soon out sell the +$35,000 Commodore...

The Cruze plan was fine and dandy for adding volume to a mostly Commodore
line but now that the tables have turned, the plants combined average
transaction price is much less than Ford's single shift multi product line...

I'm just thinking that Holden's move to "ace" Ford and their Focus plan
has backfired badly and now they may about to go under a bus...

You're missing the point Commodore would be dead without Cruze. And your looking at transaction prices wrong, Cruze costs peanuts to build whereas Fg cost half a billion to design and only sold 18,000.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The only problem is that Holden is on record as voicing concern that
the +$21,000 Cruze may soon out sell the +$35,000 Commodore...

The Cruze plan was fine and dandy for adding volume to a mostly Commodore
line but now that the tables have turned, the plants combined average
transaction price is much less than Ford's single shift multi product line...

I'm just thinking that Holden's move to "ace" Ford and their Focus plan
has backfired badly and now they may about to go under a bus...

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, FG cost around $500 million but since mid 2008, it has sold around 93,000 sedans and around 33,000 Utes
Therefore $500 million amortized in the past three and a half years is approximately $4,000 per vehicle...

And, if you recall, Holden has spent close to 500 million to bring Cruze to Australia....

Oh, so I assume you have full access to Holden's and Ford's accounts departments, seeing that you have such intimate knowledge of what goes on in them?
You have made many claims throughout your posts on this forum but seldom have I seen any concrete evidence to support these claims - they are simply your assumptions and opinions which you are misleadingly trying to pass off as fact.

[blk6t]

Holden gone = Ford gone...it's as simple as that.

As much as some here hate Holden's, we wouldn't have the cars we are driving today if it wasn't for the Commodore.

[MelsGolf]

Interesting timing, Sounds like my kids when 1 gets something the other didnt; "ooooo Me too Me too me too"

[Kryton]

Sounds like Holden just want some more free money from the government instead of finding it from their own pockets.

[buggerlugs]

I was told be a very reliable source back in 2002 that by the year 2020 manufacturing in this country would be basically non existant..........

[2011G6E]

I think they've been circling the drain for some time...both Ford and Holden aren't "Australian" companies anyway...the head honchos in the USA call teh shots when push comes to shove, and I've often heard comments that they are just watching for the cost of producing the cars here, as opposed to building right hand drive versions of cars they already make overseas to come nearer to one another.
If they got too close, or production here became more expensive than the right hand drive version option, then they'd just shut up shop here and put the money into factories like Chrysler has done and make right hand drive things like the Ford Fusion and Taurus (and probably Mustang) and the Chevrolet Malibu, Impala, and maybe Camaro.

[BHDOGS]

It's ok josh and the other journos will make sure Holden's closure is a brilliant masterstroke of fiscal restraint and realigning for Australias future while fords closure is a personal insult to all Australians and there moms and the support they received was wasted by incompetent ugly car builders.

[charles_wif_xf]

This is not good news if true.