Interesting

[Aussie.Battler]

www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2011/10/new_book_says_general_motors_w.html


Bathurst would have become real boring!

[DJR-351]

If that is true it would have been the end of the world as we know it for some.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Aussie.Battler

www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2011/10/new_book_says_general_motors_w.html


Bathurst would have become real boring!

You mean instead of a procession of mechanically identical vehicles with two different badges it would become a procession of mechanically identical vehicles with one badge....

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by flappist

You mean instead of a procession of mechanically identical vehicles with two different badges it would become a procession of mechanically identical vehicles with one badge....

On that I agree, but also add the following:

a "mindless" procession and near visually identical, that are eons removed from the road vehicles that share the same shape.

does anyone know/care who won apart from the died in the wool enthusiast , what a disaster of a competition.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by sudszy

On that I agree, but also add the following:

a "mindless" procession and near visually identical, that are eons removed from the road vehicles that share the same shape.

does anyone know/care who won apart from the died in the wool enthusiast , what a disaster of a competition.

The V8SC's still have a decent following [personal name removed], its still a very competitive and popular series.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by sudszy

does anyone know/care who won apart from the died in the wool enthusiast , what a disaster of a competition.

Shouldn't that be "dyed in the wool"?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by sudszy

On that I agree, but also add the following:

a "mindless" procession and near visually identical, that are eons removed from the road vehicles that share the same shape.

does anyone know/care who won apart from the died in the wool enthusiast , what a disaster of a competition.

You forgot about the 'safety car' that comes out periodically, just to get the cars together again when one is starting to get too far ahead.

Bathurst? Didnt watch it at all last Sunday, used to watch it religiously from start to finish every year when it was proper racing.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by sudszy

On that I agree, but also add the following:

a "mindless" procession and near visually identical, that are eons removed from the road vehicles that share the same shape.

does anyone know/care who won apart from the died in the wool enthusiast , what a disaster of a competition.

I have to agree with you on that one sudszy, the V8 supercars in general are a disaster. Bathurst is just a magnet for bogans - both the alcoholic feral and the package holiday to Bali types - and all it does is contribute to the image problem faced by the Falcon and the Commodore. I'm glad that with each passing year there are less and less Fords in the competition, the modern Bathurst is an absolute joke compared to what it used to be. Who really cares who wins? The only thing those cars share with their production counterparts are the body shells. Maybe if it was an actual GT-P against an SS-V or something I might feel differently.

[noosacuda]

Originally Posted by flappist

You mean instead of a procession of mechanically identical vehicles with two different badges it would become a procession of mechanically identical vehicles with one badge....

+ 1!!! Group Nc or Touring Car Masters racing is the go!

[Polyal]

Whats even more interesting is the anti GM comments, I knew they were angry but wow. We all know the internet is good for a whinge but its pretty consistent!

[jpd80]

Here's a much better link with much more detailed story line LINK

“HI, Bill, it’s Rick Wagoner. You know, I think it’s really time we put our companies together.”

Bill Ford wasn’t sure he’d heard right. Mr. Wagoner, the chairman and chief executive of General Motors, wanted to talk about a merger between Ford and G.M.?

He did. Mr. Wagoner and his operating chief, Fritz Henderson, would come by to talk.

Mr. Ford was stunned. He knew G.M. was desperate. But even now, in July 2008, he had no idea it was this desperate. And he couldn’t snub Rick Wagoner. Sure, Mr. Ford said. Come on over, and bring Fritz.

The idea had been the subject of theoretical debate for years. What if G.M. and Ford joined forces? Even in their shrunken state, they would have a combined 38 percent share of the United States market, and a huge international presence. All that purchasing power, manufacturing muscle and technical skill under one roof. Thousands of overlapping jobs could be eliminated. Painful as that might be, it could save billions. Chrysler? Forget it. Instead of a Big Three, there would be a Big One.

But could it even be done? G.M. and Ford had competed head-on for decades. This was not just a rivalry. This was opposite sides of town, you-stay-on-yours-and-I’ll-stay-on-mine. So, as a practical matter, a merger had never been seriously considered — until now.

Bill Ford didn’t like the sound of it. G.M. must be in serious trouble if its executives were coming to Ford for help or answers. The idea of a merger nauseated him. The U.A.W. would go nuts.

Mr. Ford spoke with his C.E.O., Alan R. Mulally, and they agreed that they had to talk to G.M., if only to find out what was going on. Mr. Wagoner’s approach was out of character. Maybe G.M. was in even worse shape than it was letting on.

The meeting that followed would profoundly affect the course of both automakers. Mr. Wagoner and Mr. Henderson arrived with Ray Young, G.M.’s chief financial officer. Don Leclair, Ford’s C.F.O., joined, too.

Mr. Wagoner began. G.M. and Ford should merge, he said. The synergies would be phenomenal. Savings would be huge. The possibilities were endless.

Bill Ford was shocked. G.M. was serious. Who, he asked, would run this new company? As bad as Ford’s stock price was, Ford still had a higher market value than G.M.

Mr. Wagoner noted that G.M. was bigger in terms of sales. So, by all rights, it should probably be in charge. But maybe they could share management, or discuss it later, he suggested.

Mr. Mulally mostly listened. He wanted to know more about G.M.’s true state. He surely didn’t want any part of any merger. As far as he was concerned, G.M. was a roaring five-alarm fire. Why, he asked, was it coming to Ford now?

Mr. Wagoner and Mr. Henderson explained that G.M. was running low on cash and was having trouble borrowing money. By merging with Ford, it could go back to Wall Street.

So that’s what this is about. G.M. is going broke, Bill Ford realized. Ford had $30 billion in the bank, and that’s what G.M. really wanted. It wasn’t about Ford at all. It was about saving G.M. Mr. Ford didn’t need to hear any more. “No thanks,” he said. “This would never work out. “

Mr. Henderson jumped in, reiterating how good a marriage could be. “Don (LeClaire) and I did a lot of work on this earlier,” he said. “I know G.M. inside and out, and Don knows Ford inside and out. Between the two of us we could figure it out pretty quickly.”

Mr. Leclair kept his mouth shut. Mr. Ford was doing the talking.

“No,” Mr. Ford said. “No, thanks.”

Mr. Wagoner understood. This wasn’t happening. “Well if you don’t do it with us,” he said, “we’re going to look elsewhere.” With that, the G.M. execs left.

At first, Mr. Ford was angry. G.M. could be so arrogant. But the overture was disturbing. If G.M. went bankrupt, a big part of the automotive supply chain could collapse. That would hurt the entire industry, including Ford. Bill Ford respected G.M.’s power and mass as no one else at Ford could. After all, he is a great-grandson of Henry Ford.

“I grew up in this town, and G.M. was the giant,” he later recalled. “That was just the reality of life for me from childhood.”

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Whats even more interesting is the anti GM comments, I knew they were angry but wow. We all know the internet is good for a whinge but its pretty consistent!

Exactly. That's also why they loved that "Ford didn't take the bailout" ad. Interesting that it got pulled, wonder if Bambi got nervous of an American telling it like it is.

[Bossxr8]

GM arrogance reminds me of Holden arrogance over here.

To suggest a merger with Ford to save their ***** and then say we should run the new company is just unbelieveable.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

GM arrogance reminds me of Holden arrogance over here.

To suggest a merger with Ford to save their ***** and then say we should run the new company is just unbelieveable.

Which is why I believe Ford supported loans for GM and Chrysler to keep a level playing field,
unlike the spin and rinse bankruptcy which gave GM a huge commercial advantage over Ford...
The US government helped GM too much and now they "look" in better shape than Ford,
mostly because it has practically no debt and $32 billion cash in hand.

At least Ford has the high moral ground on debt repayment....

[Ford_The_Win]

Can you imagine, instead of the highly innovative new Focus and the Fiesta, we'd be having this fugly piece of crap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tB7V...&feature=feedu

2012 Chevrolet Sonic


No doubt this will make it to our shores with a Holden badge slapped on it at some point.

[FG_Frodza]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Can you imagine, instead of the highly innovative new Focus and the Fiesta, we'd be having this fugly piece of crap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tB7V...&feature=feedu

2012 Chevrolet Sonic


No doubt this will make it to our shores with a Holden badge slapped on it at some point.

With a marketing campaign aimed at young women as they did with the fugly Barina 'Spark.' That POS sold a lot too...

...

PEOPLE ARE MORONS

[LUV DE COUPE]

One way for old Henry to get his original company back

[mik]

sounds like good business sense by GM , they merge with a company that is in a much better pozzy and use up their resources to hopefully pull them out of the crap, either that or take Ford down with them !
and a smarter move by Ford not falling for it.

[Supercharged]

Originally Posted by mik

sounds like good business sense by GM , they merge with a company that is in a much better pozzy and use up their resources to hopefully pull them out of the crap, either that or take Ford down with them !
and a smarter move by Ford not falling for it.

Didn't New Zealand Air do the same thing to Ansett?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Supercharged

Didn't New Zealand Air do the same thing to Ansett?

Was only a small part of the reason. The reason for Ansetts collapse lies squarely with the TWU, and their ridiculous demands for example; Ansett gets modern aircraft like the 767's and 737-400's which only require a captain and co pilot to fly replacing the third position of flight engineer. TWU bullied Ansett into keeping the flight engineer in the cockpit in the jump seat with nothing to do, but still on full pay. Anywhere else when technology deletes a position, you're made redundant. Not at Ansett.
Same for cabin crew, baggage handlers etc etc. Over staffing and ridiculous costs for conditions imposed upon the airline by the TWU strangled the airline from evolving like Qantas was forced to do. When players like Virgin came in, the business model for Ansett became far too unsustainable. It could survive within the duopoly between Qantas and itself as Qantas too was heavily controlled by the TWU, both airlines routinely would charge around $600.00for a return ticket to Melbourne.

When new, non union regulated players like Compass and Virgin entered using the European Low Cost Carrier model, Qantas and Ansett were forced to sell tickets below costs thinking they'd muscle out hte other players like Qantas and Ansett had done before with compass mk1. Unfortunately for Ansett, Virgin had international backing and wasn't soon going to be bullied, and they went on a massive fleet advancement ordering up to 30 new planes with options for 30 more. Around that time Ansett was all but in receivership with maintenance issues grounding its 767 fleet with cracks appearing around the elevators of atleast 6 planes, and maintenance records being found to be erroneous. Then 911 happened. A series of blunders led to the last line of credit and yet another bailout given by the government evaporating rapidly amongst a massive line of creditors, and the company foundered.

Ostensibly, the same thing killing Qantas now killed Ansett then.

[SSD-85]

Only General Motors would do something as sad & pathetic as that. And they wonder why theyre drowning in their own idiocy. How can Americans take pride in a company that has no pride of their own? Just plain sad.

[BHDOGS]

Yup bathurst would of sucked you would of had identical cars driving around the track oh wait.

[Falc'man]

It really comes down to the engineering personnel in the teams.

Look at Triple 8, they have one of the best talents in the field in
Andrew Thompson. HRT would have progressed a little better had there team manager
Rob Crawford not resigned. It's a shame as he was progressing nicely since '08.

Each of these teams has their own way, or
independent school of thought but all their
information in the end brings them within
fractions of tenths within each other.

When I get time I don't mind watching it - just too busy with work on the
weekends fixing all the problems our IT department cause lol - the good racing
and duals are what I find exciting.



Edit: I just realised this wasn't the topic, sorry.

GM, what blood-suckers.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It really comes down to the engineering personnel in the teams.

Look at Triple 8, they have one of the best talents in the field in
Andrew Thompson. HRT would have progressed a little better had there team manager
Rob Crawford not resigned. It's a shame as he was progressing nicely since '08.

Each of these teams has their own way, or
independent school of thought but all their
information in the end brings them within
fractions of tenths within each other.

When I get time I don't mind watching it - just too busy with work on the
weekends fixing all the problems our IT department cause lol - the good racing
and duals are what I find exciting.

The problem comes though when you Robb peter to pay paul.
There is s school of thought that IT is where its at..

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

The problem comes though when you Robb peter to pay paul.
There is s school of thought that IT is where its at..

Well if they're IT is as bad as ours then no wonder. I sometimes feel like
chucking them in the Yarra.

The point with GM is they're still selling quite well despite the GFC, but still, no
matter how much money they make they won't ever repay the taxpayers their
money.. to know they approached Ford just to robb them is a low blow.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Well if they're IT is as bad as ours then no wonder. I sometimes feel like
chucking them in the Yarra.

The point with GM is they're still selling quite well despite the GFC, but still, no
matter how much money they make they won't ever repay the taxpayers their
money.. to know they approached Ford just to robb them is a low blow.

I agree, they Drew too much money from tax payers to survive... they love to Robb us...

[AMGC63]

Nothing wrong with pushing the Focus.. Women buy cars too..

[DaveTE]

I prefer watching the pre-race event with Jim Richards, Seto, Jason Richards, Bowe and the crew. Cars look a little more real and dance different on the track from make to make. Good fun to watch even thought they are a modenised versions of their former glory. I say bring in an Endurance race for them. Shake them up the field a little more.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Nothing wrong with pushing the Focus.. Women buy cars too..

What are you trying to say?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by DJM83

What are you trying to say?

you look great in pink...

seriously im looking at the Focus next time i buy.....