P Plate modifications VS Insurance VS Police

[MWTB]

So as we all know, P platers aren't allowed ANY engine modifications by law.

Now, is this only a problem as far as the police and the VicRoads patrol are concerned, or will putting various engine mods on your ride also affect your insurance?

I'm 20 years old, so I'm a green P plater. Will putting extractors/cat back exhausts and such render my insurance void if I am involved in a crash?

I'm not too concerned about police noticing my modifications while I'm out and about, but I really am worried about what will happen if my car gets written off and they turn around and say 'no, legally you aren't allowed to have this, we're not going to honour your coverage'.

[PHANTMXR6]

Have you tried asking your insurance company?

[MWTB]

I have, but the girl on the end couldn't give me a straight answer.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by |Matt|

I have, but the girl on the end couldn't give me a straight answer.

Maybe you should ask to talk to someone who can help you,
Rather than some muppet on the fone

[KuRT12]

I have Growler Induction Kit & 2.5" Catback on my SV6, and my insurance company have no problem with that. These were both dealer fitted accessories at Patterson Cheney though.

[|Nate]

My car is fairly modded and I haven't had any attention from the Police, every single mod is listed with my insurer (Just Car Insurance) so I feel pretty covered

I think as long as you aren't driving a VR-VS Commo wagon dumped on steelies with 5 mates in the back with a farty dump pipe, you should be fine with insurance and Police!

I think the things that more affect your cover in an accident is faulty brake lights/Headlights/ Non genuine Brake or Headlights or bald tyres etc.
I highly doubt pacemakers and a high flow cat back is going to be the cause of an accident.

[xisled]

If legislation states no modifications for p plates then insurance company has grounds to denying the claim if the car is modded and a p plater is driving. They may insure the car and even list the mods but when you claim they can deny it because you are legally not allowed to drive a modded car on your p plates.

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by xisled

If legislation states no modifications for p plates then insurance company has grounds to denying the claim, based on you breaking the law. They may insure the car and even list the mods but when you claim they can deny it because the car is not p plater legal.

The way i interpret it no modifications to the engine.

Well a catback exhaust definitely isnt and well an induction kit might be
but they are both listed and cleared.

I stacked my first SV6 (not my fault - someone ran up my ***) and they replaced the entire car as it was 6 months old, and all the mods aswell (as they were listed)

So i went from MY09 195kW Alloytech to MY10 210kW SIDI.

Couldnt tell a difference though, and the alloytech was getting better fuel economy

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by KuRT12

I stacked my first SV6 (not my fault - someone ran up my ***) and they replaced the entire car as it was 6 months old, and all the mods aswell (as they were listed)

If it wasn't your fault then that's a different story I would imagine.

If you tried to make an 'at fault' claim might be a different story too.

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

If it wasn't your fault then that's a different story I would imagine.

If you tried to make an 'at fault' claim might be a different story too.

That is true, but i was just showing they replaced all of my modifications.

(including stereo, springs, etc.)

but you're right, an at fault claim may have been different - but from all our communication with the insurer, they have insisted that everything is ok.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by KuRT12

The way i interpret it no modifications to the engine.

Its listed as "performance modifications" which includes anything which increases power/torque.

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its listed as "performance modifications" which includes anything which increases power/torque.

I thought the wording was "Engine Performance Modifications"

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by KuRT12

I thought the wording was "Engine Performance Modifications"

I'll quote the legislation for you.

Road Safety (Drivers) Regulations 2009

56 Probationary prohibited vehicles
(1) Subject to subregulation (2), for the purpose of
regulation 57, a probationary prohibited vehicle
is a motor vehicle (other than a motor cycle)
that—
(a) has an engine with 8 cylinders or more; or
(b) has an engine that is turbocharged or
supercharged (other than a diesel powered
vehicle); or
(c) has an engine that has been modified to
increase the vehicle's performance (other
than a modification made by the
manufacturer in the course of the
manufacture of the vehicle); or
(d) is declared by the Corporation under
subregulation (4)(a) to be a probationary
prohibited vehicle for the purposes of this
regulation; or
(e) has a modification declared by the
Corporation under subregulation (4)(b) to be
a high powered modification.

.....

(4) For the purpose of this regulation, the
Corporation, by notice published in the
Government Gazette, may—
(a) declare that a vehicle or class of vehicle is a
probationary prohibited vehicle; or
(b) declare that a modification to a vehicle or
type of modification to a vehicle is a high
powered modification; or
(c) declare that a vehicle, other than a vehicle
with an engine having 8 cylinders or more, is
not a probationary prohibited vehicle

So yes, the legislation clearly says it has to be an engine modification - but Vicroads can declare whatever else they like a "high powered modification" by means of the government gazette.

I'll see if I can find what they have gazetted.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by xisled

If legislation states no modifications for p plates then insurance company has grounds to denying the claim if the car is modded and a p plater is driving. They may insure the car and even list the mods but when you claim they can deny it because you are legally not allowed to drive a modded car on your p plates.

Not really true.

If an insurer accepts to insure a 18 year old with a modified car (Cam, exhaust, CAI for example), they have no grounds to deny the claim.
However if they insure the same 18 year old driver, who fails to disclose any of the above modifications, then they do and probably will deny the claim.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Not really true.

If an insurer accepts to insure a 18 year old with a modified car (Cam, exhaust, CAI for example), they have no grounds to deny the claim.
However if they insure the same 18 year old driver, who fails to disclose any of the above modifications, then they do and probably will deny the claim.

Ok, I will give you an example, when I worked at AAMI, we had a claim for a 2002 HSV Club Sport. Insured by a 19 year old. The car was insured undeer his name. He smashed it, and we denied the claim, based on the fact that he was unable to drive a v8 on his p plates. Yes we insured it, took his money, around 5 grand or so, but when he claimed, it was denied.

The reason why it was denied is because he broke the law. There is wording in all policy booklets (PDS) that state the person driving the car must be licenced to drive it. A p plater driving a modded car that is illegal on p plates can be denied because he is not licensed to drive it.

[Jack960]

Don't act a goat down the main street and ull have no problems with police.

[Cúl-Báire]

Originally Posted by xisled

Ok, I will give you an example, when I worked at AAMI, we had a claim for a 2002 HSV Club Sport. Insured by a 19 year old. The car was insured undeer his name. He smashed it, and we denied the claim, based on the fact that he was unable to drive a v8 on his p plates. Yes we insured it, took his money, around 5 grand or so, but when he claimed, it was denied.

The reason why it was denied is because he broke the law. There is wording in all policy booklets (PDS) that state the person driving the car must be licenced to drive it. A p plater driving a modded car that is illegal on p plates can be denied because he is not licensed to drive it.

So AAMI are missleading consumers, and selling insurance products that are not "fit for purpose"? I would love to know what the ACCC and Financial Services Ombudsman has to say about this.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

So AAMI are missleading consumers, and selling insurance products that are not "fit for purpose"? I would love to know what the ACCC and Financial Services Ombudsman has to say about this.

When the Kid took the policy out he was even told that he would not be covered to drive the car. Yet he still paid his money and took the policy. He needed insurance for the finance of the car.

I currently work at another insurance company doing claims, and the current company I work for is very strict on mods and such and people driving cars that they should not be driving.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by xisled

when I worked at AAMI, .

You got it in one!

[kempy311]

sucks to live there no such thing in WA

[FrogInASock]

Best idea, leave the bloody thing alone until you get your full licence. Then, with the money that you have saved by not spending it on the car (and the fines, possible defects, etc) you can cut sick the day after you get your blacks.

[GreenR]

My insurance company had no problem. Told them about cat back exhaust. Told them about springs. Asked how much it lowered I said roughly 3 cm (was closer to 4cm actually). Barely made a difference in my premium.

[Cúl-Báire]

Read your PDS from your insurance policy. Most insurance companies will consider your claim void if there are "any" modifications to your vehicle...

Of course if the modifications still meet the relevent ADR's, the vehilce was still roadworthy and wasn't a contributing factor to what ever incident you were claiming on they would have a great deal of trouble voiding your claim if you threatened further action by way of elevating your complaints to the financial services ombudsman.


As for the Po'po' as if they are going to know whether or not a typhoon intake, and a K&N intake are factory or not... Keep it subtle and dont act like a ****stick and you won't have a problem!

[IronFalcon]

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

As for the Po'po' as if they are going to know whether or not a typhoon intake, and a K&N intake are factory or not... !

I might, but nobody I work with would

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

Keep it subtle and dont act like a ****stick and you won't have a problem!

Exactly - A cop not going to bother popping anyone's bonnet and doing a roadside inspection on a car unless a) it's a total ******* and shouldn't be on the road or b) the punter gets mouthy and in doing so persuades the copper to not exercise their discretion.

[MWTB]

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

Read your PDS from your insurance policy. Most insurance companies will consider your claim void if there are "any" modifications to your vehicle...

Of course if the modifications still meet the relevent ADR's, the vehilce was still roadworthy and wasn't a contributing factor to what ever incident you were claiming on they would have a great deal of trouble voiding your claim if you threatened further action by way of elevating your complaints to the financial services ombudsman.


As for the Po'po' as if they are going to know whether or not a typhoon intake, and a K&N intake are factory or not... Keep it subtle and dont act like a ****stick and you won't have a problem!

Exactly, thats why I wasn't worried about the police. I was planning on a cat back and maybe extractors, thats it at this stage.

As for the PDS, its actually not in there >_< Nothing about modifications at all.

For the record, I'm with RACV.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Up here in QLD you can pass anything as long as it meets "Best Engineering Practice".

After hearing that about 40 times from their ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT who couldn't pin point WHAT clause in their OWN DAMN LEGISLATION they were referring to...... (calms rage)....... they redirected me to a website with page after page of babble which I have now converted into a fool proof forumla that anyone can use to pass vehicle modification in QLD.

Step 1. Find an engineer
Step 2. Throw money at them
Step 3. Give him/her a blow job.... repeatedly.... until certificate is issued.
Step 4. Repeat and/or offer your girlfriend / boyfriend if certificate is not issued.
Step 5. Take car + cert to QLD transport

Congratulations! Your car is now compliant.

I am insured with NRMA... and I will never leave them... why? Because one day I got a lovely lady on the phone:

ME: "So you don't care about the exhaust?"
HER: "No...."
ME: "The lowering?"
HER: "No..."
ME: "The intake, wheels..." etc etc.
HER: "No... we don't care... and we don't need to know... so long as it meets QLD Transport approval you're covered"

[gtxb67]

for insurance purposes, make sure everything is on paper or email (from them). do not take their word for it over the phone. things might have changed since the late 80's, but i was given 3 totally different stories on mags for my coupe - and was told over the phone i could lower it, and when i sent in the paperwork to show it had been done, they cancelled my policy

also in regards to claims, i had thought insurance companies can deny a claim if an unroadworthy part was the cause of an accident. could this mean that if you have engine mods and it is deemed the accident was caused by speed, that they can refuse to pay out

to me, i would wait a year or so and make sure that everything is legal and above board - it seems like a long time, i know, but it could give you less headaches

another point that none of us really want to think about is, if you have a major accident that results in serious charges being laid towards you - will having any (illegal) engine mods compromise your trial - seems like a silly thought i know, but it is too late to consider once it is happening

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

for insurance purposes, make sure everything is on paper or email (from them). do not take their word for it over the phone. things might have changed since the late 80's, but i was given 3 totally different stories on mags for my coupe - and was told over the phone i could lower it, and when i sent in the paperwork to show it had been done, they cancelled my policy

Today everything is in writing.

Originally Posted by gtxb67

also in regards to claims, i had thought insurance companies can deny a claim if an unroadworthy part was the cause of an accident. could this mean that if you have engine mods and it is deemed the accident was caused by speed, that they can refuse to pay out

A 50kw and a 400kw car can both do 150kph. Speed due to mod's would be hard to use as reason for denial, unless it was from heavy acceleration!

Originally Posted by gtxb67

another point that none of us really want to think about is, if you have a major accident that results in serious charges being laid towards you - will having any (illegal) engine mods compromise your trial - seems like a silly thought i know, but it is too late to consider once it is happening

RTA is a different story. You vehicle must meet RWC conditions to be covered. Unless you can prove that you are unaware that the vehicle was un-roadworthy. Unfortunately (in Vic anyway) car roadworthyness isn't really policed.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Today everything is in writing.

recently when we went to insure our rav4, i told them we were going to pick up the car and then tint the windows and put in a stereo. they told me they could not have the windows and stereo on the policy until they were in the car. in this case, we were authorised to do it, but it would not have been in writing until we had done it. having been stung like that before, i told a little white lie and said the car had these modifications and they then sent the appropriate (to me) paperwork
certainly for the original poster, i would wait for confirmation in writing before performing a mod to the car. i was given verbal confirmation and when i let them know, they cancelled the policy. if i was waited for written confirmation, i would not have gone ahead with the lowering and then still would have been insured

Originally Posted by LTDHO

A 50kw and a 400kw car can both do 150kph. Speed due to mod's would be hard to use as reason for denial, unless it was from heavy acceleration!

very true, but most accidents are considered speed related and therefore a very evil act

Originally Posted by LTDHO

RTA is a different story. You vehicle must meet RWC conditions to be covered. Unless you can prove that you are unaware that the vehicle was un-roadworthy. Unfortunately (in Vic anyway) car roadworthyness isn't really policed.

probably true, but vic roads is not the problem in my example. the public prosecuter may be. certainly they seem to go harder on someone when there is a problem with the car, be it illegally modified or unregistered etc.





i am not trying to dispute any of your comments, but do not have much confidence in insurance companies or even the law, when they have an avenue to get out of something. i do not neccessarily believe either the insurance companies or the law are wrong, but do not trust them too much when my back is to the wall. basically when someone is in the crap, it is too late to think about what they should have done

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Today everything is in writing.
A 50kw and a 400kw car can both do 150kph. Speed due to mod's would be hard to use as reason for denial, unless it was from heavy acceleration!
.

Insurance doesnt work like that. The insurance company only is concerned with what the stats tell them about increased/reduced risk.

Simply they find that cars that have certain mods are involved in more "incidents", whether it seems logical that those mods could actually cause problems or not and price the premiums risks afforded by their stats.

For example putting a wider wheel and a loud exhaust on a stock falcon may not change its power or handling to the extent that it could be possibly the cause of any incident. The insurance company simply looks at it as cars with wide wheels and loud exhausts seem to end up with more claims(because of the (profile/mentality) drivers who are attracted to that mod, hence the higher policies.

If they found that cars that had a stripe painted down the centre had more accidents, they'd charge a higher premium for that too.

Sure with newer models that have to go with past experience on but if the model has a long history the list of mods allowed/refused may be very specific. ie sub wrx

So whether the mod has a direct cause/effect on any claim is not the point, its a factor that could have decided whether the insurance company took you on in the first place or would have demanded a much higher premium for.
Unless its a mod that the insurance company would have taken on without any change in premium, then they will have more than adequate grounds to refuse a claim.