Odometer Fraud

GTFalcon 351 · 20-05-2010, 09:49 PM

Allmost went to buy this car from carsales before i googled the rego and found that the car seems to have lost 200,000kms since it was sold interstate last month, Isnt this illegal?

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...AI27FF&trecs=1

http://mobile.tradingpost.com.au/ite...=search&page=1

FordFalconBF · 20-05-2010, 10:28 PM

That's bloody suss.. I'd be reporting the dealer to the authorities. Not hard to get another dash from the wreckers or eBay.

**data_mine** · 20-05-2010, 10:37 PM

Very illegal.

DTFRMONT · 20-05-2010, 11:42 PM

You'd think he would've at least got it re-registered before advertising it.....

deesun · 20-05-2010, 11:55 PM

Certainly looks suss. Current buyer is private though not a dealer but it is still illegal to wind back an odo. Originally the car at CarNet supposedly had 295277k which is an AWFUL lot of k's. Over 70 a year means it must have been a cab or sum such. Looking at the pics at CarNet it looks pretty good nick,seats ok,mats ok and paint ok so maybe there was a typo at CarNet. A car only 4 years old with that many k's would show much more signs of wear and tear with that many k's on it I reckon. First for me would be ring CarNet. Next would be ring seller and confirm details and then contact the authority which handles said items and show them the paperwork.

Bushbasher · 21-05-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

Certainly looks suss. Current buyer is private though not a dealer but it is still illegal to wind back an odo. Originally the car at CarNet supposedly had 295277k which is an AWFUL lot of k's. Over 70 a year means it must have been a cab or sum such. Looking at the pics at CarNet it looks pretty good nick,seats ok,mats ok and paint ok so maybe there was a typo at CarNet. A car only 4 years old with that many k's would show much more signs of wear and tear with that many k's on it I reckon. First for me would be ring CarNet. Next would be ring seller and confirm details and then contact the authority which handles said items and show them the paperwork.

It's quite easy to rack up that many kms as a reps car that does a regular country run and keep the body/trim in top condition. A bonnet protector and a fresh coat of paint on the front bumper and you might never pick it's spent it's life on the highway. In alot of cases I'd take a reps car over a low k city car as the mechanicals will probably be in a better condition overall.

Bushbasher

GS608 · 21-05-2010, 08:35 AM

Just check the last roadworthy, it'll have the kms on it yeah?

my67xr · 21-05-2010, 09:29 AM

a mate just sold his DL LTD thru carsales, it had 450,000km's
it is now for sale on another site with 250,000 odd km's

phillyc · 21-05-2010, 09:32 AM

These cases need to be reported to either Fiar Trading and/or police.

EDManual · 21-05-2010, 09:43 AM

I have seen a lot of high km cars that look almost new once cleaned. Most people think 70000 a year is hard on a car, but if its just highway/country stuff it really isn't as far as bodywork, interior etc is concerned. Even the running gear could look almost new still.

I have a current 2007 Elantra with 260,000 km on it, done them all myself. Its perfect inside, not a scratch of wear, give it a wash and looks new too.
Someone dodgy could easy put a speedo with 60,000km on it. Makes the car go from being worth $5000 to $10000 for maybe $100!

FGX335 · 21-05-2010, 10:21 AM

There are indicators on how many kms a car has done, the cruise buttons wear easily, the steering wheel, boot buttons, etc. However, if these are replaced, then it does get difficult.

In this case, it is possible the other listing was a typo. The car does look in good nick, and the Service Manual should also be telling. I know they can be doctored, but it all helps when trying to verify if a car is legit or not.

I do think you can tell if a car has done a lot of kays, there are lots of little subtle hints. The best way is to look at the car yourself and check the usual stuff.

glavas · 21-05-2010, 10:22 AM

when i sold my mums nissan bluebird it had 90000km on it but no log book. one of the guys that came to look at it was a copper and he said he wanted it but was unsure because he was working on cases about dodgy odo's

JimNiki · 21-05-2010, 10:51 AM

Mate knows a mate who apparently goes from yard to yard doing this with his notebook for a living?

Obviously the source is not reliable ... but!

Kryton · 21-05-2010, 11:04 AM

I cant believe that a Falcon with nearly 300000km was still worth nearly $9000.
Theres still hope for my BA with 200000km then.

pottery beige · 21-05-2010, 11:11 AM

use to work with a bloke that thought he was clever winding back speedos on cars and flogging them off..... then he bought this fairly clean low k's mazda ute.... LOL.. that had quite obviously been wound back a fair bit itself... Suffer in ya jocks i payed out on him bigtime.. Hahahaha

Matty4 · 21-05-2010, 11:26 AM

The Carsales ad says he has had the car for the last 3 years, yet the other ad expired in April this year. If he had it for the last 3 years then it would have Vic rego. Dodgy as, this one is......

RedHotGT · 21-05-2010, 11:32 AM

The sad reality is that this happens regularly... and not EVERYONE out there will research the car as well as you GTFalcon_351...

Keeping the plates on the car wasn't so bright... in fact if the numberplates had have changed - good chance that nobody would have ever known....

Unfortunately people wear rose-coloured glasses when they find a car that they want... particularly if it is a bargain....

And this tarnishes honest sellers that are selling cheap... for whatever reason...
(going overseas, had a baby, downsizing, etc etc)...

Good pick up - hope the guy gets the advert removed... but he'll only change the plates and put it up again...

I thought it would only be illegal only after the vehicle was sold...
Kinda like if I walked into a bottle shop and hid a bottle of JD under my jacket... until I walk out the door - I haven't actually stolen it...

Smoke Pursuit · 21-05-2010, 11:46 AM

Sad part is its so easy to do. Drive down to wreckers and buy a second hand cluster with less kms...

I reckon we will see alot more of this with BA / BF falcons over the next few years. No doubt hes bought a new logbook for it and had a mate at the local ford dealer stamp all the services up to 75,000.

:S

RedHotGT · 21-05-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Sad part is its so easy to do. Drive down to wreckers and buy a second hand cluster with less kms...

I reckon we will see alot more of this with BA / BF falcons over the next few years. No doubt hes bought a new logbook for it and had a mate at the local ford dealer stamp all the services up to 75,000.

:S

Box of beer for a couple of stamps in the log book....
Cant be to hard... right?

Redrum · 23-05-2010, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Sad part is its so easy to do. Drive down to wreckers and buy a second hand cluster with less kms...

I reckon we will see alot more of this with BA / BF falcons over the next few years. No doubt hes bought a new logbook for it and had a mate at the local ford dealer stamp all the services up to 75,000.

:S

I have heard that the BA/BF's can be wound back.

seduced_xr · 23-05-2010, 03:50 AM

need to be programmed with some sort of computer, but alot of places can do it and they dont ask any questions.

when i found my BA XR6 03 last year with only 68 000km i was wondering myself if it had been tampered with , but the log book was stamped by the selling dealer and a few local places around in esperance where the car was sold. even called the previous owner and the car turned out to be their secondary car, they lived in a caravan park and had a 4x4 to tow that around when they needed the XR never had a towball on it.

Redrum · 23-05-2010, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seduced_xr

need to be programmed with some sort of computer, but alot of places can do it and they dont ask any questions.

when i found my BA XR6 03 last year with only 68 000km i was wondering myself if it had been tampered with , but the log book was stamped by the selling dealer and a few local places around in esperance where the car was sold. even called the previous owner and the car turned out to be their secondary car, they lived in a caravan park and had a 4x4 to tow that around when they needed the XR never had a towball on it.

I buy 99% of my cars new, so problem not a huge one for me. But I would be very wary buying anything pre FG. I would wonder also if this can be done to FG's.

Smoke Pursuit · 27-05-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrum

I buy 99% of my cars new, so problem not a huge one for me. But I would be very wary buying anything pre FG. I would wonder also if this can be done to FG's.

FG's the same.. New cluster and woolah.. Back to Zero..

FGX335 · 21-05-2010, 12:14 PM

I take it all back! Did the google search myself, dodgy as can be. Google has a cache of the Trading Post ad from the 14th of April with almost 300,000km on it, and lo and behold it has magically dropped since last month. Has anyone reported this one?

Kryton · 21-05-2010, 12:18 PM

I didnt think it was that easy in the B Series.
I know it isnt hard, but i thought that Ford had to wave their magic wand over the car as the new cluster wouldnt work since it is VIN'd to the previous car it came from - or am i wrong?

I know a lot of older cars you can just change the cluster and thats that.

Smoke Pursuit · 21-05-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

I didnt think it was that easy in the B Series.
I know it isnt hard, but i thought that Ford had to wave their magic wand over the car as the new cluster wouldnt work since it is VIN'd to the previous car it came from - or am i wrong?

I know a lot of older cars you can just change the cluster and thats that.

As long as you get a cluster out of identical car (that is a BF XT) then it should work without touching it on the WDS.

**data_mine** · 21-05-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

I didnt think it was that easy in the B Series.
I know it isnt hard, but i thought that Ford had to wave their magic wand over the car as the new cluster wouldnt work since it is VIN'd to the previous car it came from - or am i wrong?

I know a lot of older cars you can just change the cluster and thats that.

No it is as easy as changing the cluster. There's some differences, e.g. clusters with traction control / ESP into car without will show the warning lights.

The ECU's do store the odometer too, but need to be read with a scan tool or WDS. No way a regular buyer would be able to tell.

Brendo_GSUte · 21-05-2010, 12:26 PM

If the data for the KM travelled isnt secure like it should be IE can be easily changed by swapping out the instrument cluster or PCM/ECU then its a big failing on fords behalf.

hate to be the electonics engineer who didnt go far enough when the lawyers knock on his door...

Smoke Pursuit · 21-05-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendo_BAXR8

If the data for the KM travelled isnt secure like it should be IE can be easily changed by swapping out the instrument cluster or PCM/ECU then its a big failing on fords behalf.

hate to be the electonics engineer who didnt go far enough when the lawyers knock on his door...

When theres a will theres always going to be a way!!

Some of the earlier digital spedometer cars stored the kms in the ECU... but im 99% sure on B series Falcons its stored in the cluster itself.

MYVYSS · 21-05-2010, 01:08 PM

I reported him to carsales and also sent an "enquiry with a link to the original sale asking how long it took him to drive 200000km in reverse.