|
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
20-11-2008, 07:32 PM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,053
|
AutoExpress UK announces the 25 Greatest Fast Fords 1963 - 2009
1st Place goes to the Sierra RS Cosworth Focus ST comes in at 14th Fiesta ST185 at 18th http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...ast-fords.html |
||
20-11-2008, 07:33 PM | #2 | ||
Alan! Alan! Alan!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 346
|
so, our falcoon prob wasn't mentioned i'm sure.
|
||
20-11-2008, 07:36 PM | #3 | ||||
Back to Le Frenchy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Back home.....
Posts: 13,346
|
Quote:
__________________
Quote:
07 Renault Sport Megane F1 Team R26 #1397
|
||||
20-11-2008, 08:33 PM | #4 | |||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melb East
Posts: 11,421
|
Quote:
| [/url] |
__________________
'73 Landau - 10.82 @ 131mph '11 FG GT335 - 12.43 @ 116mph '95 XG ute - 3 minutes, 21.14 @ 64mph 101,436 MEMBERS ......... 101,436 OPINIONS ..... What could possibly go wrong! Clevo Mafia [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] |
|||
20-11-2008, 11:00 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 514
|
I'm surprised the xt gt isn't in there. There were a few sold over there and they spanked the smaller fords quite a bit in the occasional rally. The London to Sydney Marathon was a fine showing too. In production cup the xt gt wiped the floor in the two or three races it entered (til it was banned becasue there weren't enough sold in UK). pfft
Typical Brits |
||
20-11-2008, 11:18 PM | #6 | |||
Well hello Mr Fancypants
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,066
|
Quote:
__________________
1965 Ford Anglia 1980 Ford Escort RS2000 2006 Mazda SP23 2012 Ford Focus ST |
|||
20-11-2008, 11:43 PM | #7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 514
|
I reckon one or two of these would make the list.
Escort Twin Cam - class winner, nearly atcc champ in 1972 due to points system Cortina GT - 2x bathurst winner, 3 x 6 hour winner Cortina GT500 (okay, I know it's Aussie developed) bathurst winner Lotus Cortina - rally, circuit etc RS2000 - so popular it even spawned an Aussie version Capri V6 gt - class winner, rally winner, GT40 - no explanation needed Boss Mustang - see above Mustang 64 - 67 and 66 thru 68- bob jane, pete geoghan, norm beechey, john harvey etc Five ATCC Sierra RS500 - 2 x bathurst, 2 x atcc, 1987 bathurst debacle, 1992 moral victor etc etc etc No one disputes that the v8 only formula effectively banned better group a machines. England didn't have a minimum number of cars sold rule in 1968/69. There were twin cam escorts and lotus cortinas racing before they had even sold one road goer. The falcon was banned because.... Yeah! "Lets invent cricket and then suck at it" |
||
20-11-2008, 11:58 PM | #8 | |||
Well hello Mr Fancypants
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,066
|
Quote:
good list though.
__________________
1965 Ford Anglia 1980 Ford Escort RS2000 2006 Mazda SP23 2012 Ford Focus ST |
|||
21-11-2008, 11:25 PM | #9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 888
|
Quote:
All the V8 formula did in this country was save tin top racing from obscurity. As for your last comment..... Ferkin Funny! |
|||
21-11-2008, 08:50 PM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 514
|
Sorry to all the POMS. just havin' a dig at the soap-dodgers
|
||
21-11-2008, 09:03 PM | #11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
What an embarrassment of pommy 4cyl snails.... apart from a few "ring ins" is a "pasty white skin nerds" extravaganza....
I can think of a dozen Fords that would slaughter most of those in reverse.....
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
||
21-11-2008, 11:00 PM | #12 | |||
Well hello Mr Fancypants
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,066
|
Quote:
i agree, a lot of those cars listed are poor choices, but these were the cars that were offered for sale as they suit that market. small roads, no parking spaces and an infrastructure that simply wouldnt cope with cars as big as ours. the infrastructure is failing badly as it is. fuel prices and the cost of insurance (compulsory in the UK) has also had an influence on the sorts of cars they buy. there is no way 90% of the population could afford to insure something like an XR8, let alone put petrol in it. to top it off, would you like to splash out on a new GT and have to leave it parked on the side of the road, exposed to the weather and vandals and assoorted scum? personally, i agree with the top nine, no questions. from there, it gets a bit dicey. no MK1 Capri is a shock, especially when you consider the RS3100 was such a beast. no MK2 Escort (okay, i am a little biased on this one...) but it was a world rally champion. i am pretty sure the sportka hasnt had a brilliant motorsport career and any successes would only come in one-make series. The MKV RS2000 was, by all accounts, cr@p. the Scorpio V6 is a nice car, but not worthy of the list. The MK2 Fiesta instead of the MK1. The Puma was derided as a hairdressers car. in fact, there are a lot of holes, but given the sort of magazine running the survey, maybe it shouldnt be a surprise that the newer cars are over represented. however, it was compiled in Britain and is therefore going to be biased. the cars lsited are the ones that they are able to buy and people grew up admiring, in exactly the same way that we lust after GTHOs, Phase 4s and F6s. dismissing the list without considering all the factors involved in compiling such is just an easy opportunity at pommy bashing. how many people here think an Aussie list would do a better job? ehast13 identified some great cars, but i suspect any list compiled by one of our own magazines would miss most of those cars and come up with Falcons, a GT40, a couple of Mustangs with a grudging nod to one of the MK1 Cortinas. do the same thing in the US and you will get the same result.
__________________
1965 Ford Anglia 1980 Ford Escort RS2000 2006 Mazda SP23 2012 Ford Focus ST |
|||
22-11-2008, 01:14 PM | #13 | |||
re
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Victoria - where being slow & incompetent is considered being "safe"
Posts: 1,323
|
Quote:
RS Cosworth Escort - A few of them turn up on Jap import sites. There was one listed a few months ago for $20-25k. I'd go for the mark 2 (small turbo) version with a whale tail. Cosworth Sierra - I was looking at the figures for the stock ones and looking back from 2008 they don't seem so remarkable. I can remember back in their day I (and a lot of other people) thought of them as absolute weapons. I's still like an RS500.
__________________
Scuderia Rev: Otto the tow pig - 2007 3.0 litre Coupé, vernünftig schnelle aber kein peilstab, Bathurst 2007 und 2010 zwölf Stunde Gewinner Jaffa the angry ant - mid 70's Honda 市民の, 73 と立方インチ LSD Elle "the body" shell - early 70's Datsun フェアレディ coupe. いい体は彼女の内側、内側と土台を待つ |
|||
15-03-2009, 12:45 AM | #14 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back in NZ
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
I'm running an AU2 XR8 as my daily driver over here in the UK. Insurance is £240 ($511 to you) per annum, petrol is a little pricey but not exactly a deal stopper. She is a lot cheaper to run than my old 3 door cossie was as well. I didn't notice any crumbling infrastructure as I drove into town this morning, where I managed to squeeze it into a parking space just vacated by a teeny range rover... The car is normally parked in the garage but when left outside she has yet to be attacked by vandals or assoorted scum!!!! Now, where did I leave my warm beer, slippers and pipe..... |
|||
15-03-2009, 02:12 AM | #15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 888
|
Quote:
Did you import it? Do you ever see any others on the roads over there? What about later models BA to FG's? So does it blend into the crowd? You must get some looks, Ahh so many questions, so little time. |
|||
15-03-2009, 08:09 AM | #16 | |||
Clevo Mafia Inc.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,496
|
Quote:
|
|||
15-03-2009, 09:12 AM | #17 | |||
I am Groot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
|
Quote:
Look here... http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/index.html
__________________
.. McLaren F1 Dick Johnson Racing "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
|||
21-11-2008, 09:34 PM | #18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 514
|
I wonder what times a sierra rs500 would pull around bathurst if it were allowed the same freedoms as v8 supercars.
Big Aero, Big rubber, more weight perhaps, better cage design, sequential box, modern ecu. WOW! |
||
21-11-2008, 10:36 PM | #19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 888
|
Quote:
V8s are a formula, and so was group A. I think the Serria's did alright for themselfs. Could they go quicker, sure! All alloy block V8 twin turbo Four wheel drive, active aero package. etc..etc... sure they could go faster. But then again so could a V8 suprecar. |
|||
10-03-2009, 07:49 PM | #20 | |||
Fordaholic
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 884
|
Quote:
|
|||
15-03-2009, 12:00 AM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 888
|
Quote:
My point was, without any restrictions you can make anything go fast. But I suppose these things can get lost in translation can't they! |
|||
21-11-2008, 11:36 PM | #22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
Besides.. Group A was a Farce... between the Sierra and GTR skyline neither of them would have finished a single race without serious non production "concessions"....
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||
22-11-2008, 10:18 PM | #23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 514
|
Whoa, didn't mean to offend anybody.
I just reckon the sierra was a weapon in its time. It already had a 7500rpm limit, nine inch diff and holinger box. Imagine if we allowed a v8 supercar spec aero kit on it. Throw in todays ecu tuning, improved turbo reliability, improved roll cage design (torsional stiffness), 2008 spec brakes, You could drop the IRS and use the solid axle like the V8supercar and give them the project blueprint style front suspension. Make them keep the skinnier rubber (latest compound tho), the twitchy short wheelbase etc and see what it could do. I agree there were many concessions made to many group A cars but WOW, what a spectacle until it all went tits up with tainted fuel, adjustable boost, all wheel drive etc. True, the V8's are only very very remotely based on road cars. A 5.4 boss built to group a spec (including such 'concessions' as holinger boxes, nine inch diff etc) would probably struggle to keep up with a 92 spec GRoup A sierra. An F6 built with the same concessions would be an awesome group a car. I really didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. Fact is though, a twenty year old RS500 is still an exciting car. Ever driven one? I have. WOW. I;ve driven a low k stocko one and a heavily modded one. They were both exciting. I've never owned one. I have owned xr6's, xr8, a supercharged xr6, a 390 galaxie, a 400ci galaxie, many 302 and 351 fords. Fact is, apart from early 70's HO's, the only other factory spec ford I have driven that excited me as much was an RS500. If group A was around today, which car would win? What would be the ultimate machine? WRX, F6, Lancer, Commodore, GTR (probably). agh, I'm getting off topic. In 92, there wasn't falcon or commodore product that was a regular threat to the aging RS500. The commies did well over distance but..... Once again, didn't mean to offend but the RS500 was the car to have in the late eighties in sprint races. If it could do such fast times twenty years ago, what could one do know if it were built with today's know-how? Ditto group c falcons/commodores RS500 is worthy of any list |
||
22-11-2008, 11:47 PM | #24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: St Kilda
Posts: 522
|
Nobody is doubting that the RS500 was a weapon in it's time, but it can't outgun a V8 Supercar.
Dick Johnson put his Sierra on pole at Bathurst in '92 with a 12.8, and his fastest lap in the actual race was a 16.7. Next fastest Sierra was Park/Parsons PJ's with 17.6 and 20.1 respectively. This year, James Courtney was the fastest on raceday with a 09.8 and Winterbottom/Richards did a 07.1 in qualifying. That's almost 17 seconds a lap in race trim which would need to be overcome, and given free rein it could be done, but it wouldn't be achievable under the basic principles of either Group A or V8 Supercars. |
||
23-11-2008, 01:47 AM | #25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 888
|
I wasn't getting my nose out of joint either, I just thought your assesment of the v8 categoy was off the mark. I for one would dispute that Group A cars are better than V8 Supercars, they're not even in the same league.
Certainly group A have far more variety, which I miss I might add, but I don't know by what measure you are using to assess that group A cars are/were better machines. The previous post by Dom clearly demonstrates the vast difference in times that these cars generated. 17 seconds over 6.1 klm is substantial. Thats not to suggest that the Sierra wasn't a weapon, it certianly was, and it should be included in any top ford list. The RS500 in road trim with its 165kw, borgwarner 5 speed, weight 1240kg. 1/4 mile times in the mid to high 14's, 0-100klm in the low sixes are still good figures even by todays standards. But there have been many turbos on the market since the RS500 that could destroy those times. Even the "slow" 1850kg GT Falcons circa 2003 - 2008. In race trim the last Sierra's were lethal, pushing around 370kw, with Getrag boxes and a race weight of around 1035KG. But these cars were built with group "A" rules in mind (along with the GTR). Its not really fair to say they flogged the V8s (which they did) without considering the impact that group A rules had on V8s of the period. Group A rules ensured that the V8s had a high weight imposed on them due to the engine capacity, and the engines were never allowed to reach their full potential. The engines were essentially the same platform (IE 5 litre NA pushrod V8's) as todays V8 super car engines. Yet they never got anywhere near the HP that they get out of them now days? Not even close! Put it this way, Dicks 5 litre 1886 Group "A" Mustang struggled to make anyware near 300kw. That was a small block five litre Ford V8, basically the same block as V8 supercar of today which makes closer to 600kw. Can going from a Carby to fule injection make you pick up 300Kw? I suspect Group A rules had a bit to do with the fact that the V8s weren't the top performers of the day. Dick stepped out of his roughly 380KW Group C falcon at the time into a Group A Mustang Pumping out roughly 280KW. If you put those figures into context, its no wonder he switched to a Sierra. His last Serrias, which were on a knife edge as far a reliability is concerned (wind up the boost any further and POP), were closer in Kw to his group C V8 than his his group A V8 thats for sure. At the end of the day, The Serrias were and still are a great car. But it was rules and category that defined them. Which is one of the reasons that they had a marked advantage over V8s of the time. Even with wings, tyres, and chassis development I doubt it could match a V8 supercar. |
||
23-11-2008, 06:24 PM | #26 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
|
Quote:
The current V8 Supercars are starting to push past 620 hp now due to continuous development. |
|||
23-11-2008, 08:40 PM | #27 | |||
Performance Inc.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In a cave
Posts: 2,554
|
Do the poms even have a V8 ford? seems not those poor buggers don't know what their missing no stangs no falc's probably only 6gt 40's in all the country go to feel sorry for them
__________________
In The Garage... FPV Super Pursuit Build no 0080/91 Lotus Exige S/C S240 Kart Hasse Chassis 100J Power Quote:
|
|||
24-11-2008, 08:17 AM | #28 | ||||
Previously ScottishXC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,100
|
Quote:
Nope, last production V8 Ford was the Pilot which finished back in the early '50's I believe. GT40's were derived from the Lola's which the Seppo's never seem to remember, hence trying to claim the GT40 all to themselves! Petrol crisis etc meant that there was no real market for "cheap" large cars such as Ford, Vauxhall etc. Engines rarely exceeded 3 litres in these manfacturers. There are and always have been plenty of luxury large vehicles in the UK such as Jag, Daimler, Range Rover,Jensen,Bristol, TVR, Bentley, RR etc for those who could afford not to care about the price of petrol.
__________________
Great transactions with the following members: BJ Gilesie XAGTCoupe Pilch Aussie_afroman Donut King Bad Boy Benny BAWITHLOT Greenmachine Pinkbits CUZ351 OhioXB Falconunbelievable 4VXC Uncleraggy FG G6 Ego, tech pack, Tropic gold 1973 Landau, Cosmic blue 1975 P5 LTD....long term project Quote:
|
||||
27-11-2008, 02:05 PM | #29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
|
Quote:
__________________
2005 BA MK2 FPV GT - 6 SPEED MANUAL , SILHOUETTE, SWISSVAX, SUNROOF, BILSTEIN AND LOVELLS, FACTORY GENUINE 19'S, X-FORCE STAINLESS QUAD CATBACK, ADVANCE HEADERS, 200 CPSI CATS, BLUEPOWER CAI, HERROD BREATHER KIT, 4:11 DIFF RATIO, MAL WOOD OPT 3+ CLUTCH, BILLET SHIFTER, MELLINGS 10227, NOW WITH REVERSE CAMERA/SENSORS, ALPINE SPEAKERS & SUB - CUSTOM TUNED TO 275 RWKW NOW WITH A NEW ADDITION - 2017 MUSTANG V8 GT FASTBACK - , 6 SPEED AUTO IN PLATINUM WHITE, |
|||
10-12-2008, 09:31 AM | #30 | |||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6
|
Quote:
|
|||