Fines for running AMBER lights.

wulos · 10-10-2008, 09:25 AM

Thought that people may be interested to know that you can be fined for running an amber light. Offence carries the exact same penalty as running a red.
As stated in the roadrules, you are only permitted to travel through the amber if you would be unable to safely stop. Many people simply use the amber as an excuse to travel through. Be aware though that the police can and will make a discretion call on whether they believe you would be able to stop or not.
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RG · 10-10-2008, 09:31 AM

Bloody unaustralian that is I tell ya.

Ah well I suppose it is an excuse to actually use the half decent brakes I have, but everyone always looks at you funny when you jump on them for an amber light lol.

blackers10 · 10-10-2008, 09:33 AM

whats worse is the moron behind you who wanted to run the amber light or has brakes that have never had a pad change.. now resides in what you used to call a boot

Dauphin · 10-10-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackers10

whats worse is the moron behind you who wanted to run the amber light or has brakes that have never had a pad change.. now resides in what you used to call a boot

This exact scenario happened to a friend on Monday. Lights went amber, she came to a hard stop. A lady behind her went into her boot. Now my friend needs a new bumper, a light and boot lid and insurance is chasing the other party.

DOC · 10-10-2008, 09:39 AM

?? that has always been the rule, are people saying they did not know of a basic road rule ?

DBourne · 10-10-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

?? that has always been the rule, are people saying they did not know of a basic road rule ?

my question exactly

4Vman · 10-10-2008, 09:46 AM

I would have thought that was common knowledge, i've always been under the impression that that rule existed.

RG · 10-10-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I would have thought that was common knowledge, i've always been under the impression that that rule existed.

Just because people know a rule exists (yes I did too) doesn't mean it is actually abided by.

How many people do you know that go through on the amber, I bet it is quite a few and I am sure everyone here has done it at least once in their lives.

4Vman · 10-10-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell

Just because people know a rule exists (yes I did too) doesn't mean it is actually abided by.

How many people do you know that go through on the amber, I bet it is quite a few and I am sure everyone here has done it at least once in their lives.

Yep agree'd, and there's nothing worse than taking the sensible or "conservative" approach to obeying traffic lights and someone howling up your backside in a cloud of tyre smoke because they wanted to risk it and "run the amber/red"...

Dezza · 10-10-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep agree'd, and there's nothing worse than taking the sensible or "conservative" approach to obeying traffic lights and someone howling up your backside in a cloud of tyre smoke because they wanted to risk it and "run the amber/red"...

Yep. I've been hit in that instance. I stopped for the amber, then had someone not paying attention and trying to outrun it slam into the back of me. Good thing the EA's a tough old girl. It came out of it with minimal damage, while the Hilux that hit me was a wreck

hannem · 10-10-2008, 11:26 AM

Once went through a rorange light, you know, a very late orange.

Had a tandem on the back with a bit of a load and the light turned orange and I started to brake and did slow down some but then stuff it and just took my foot off the brake and cruized through.

Much to my dismay there was a cop at the lights and came and pulled me over.

I basically said I could have stopped if I wanted as the car has good brakes and so does the trailer but in this instance I felt it would have been leaning towards the unsafe side of things.

He agreed and said have a nice day.

Cheers M

**Polyal** · 10-10-2008, 09:49 AM

Bit of a grey area isn't it, everyones "safe" is different.

TZENU · 10-10-2008, 09:52 AM

It exists alright; and i have a $120 fine to prove it from 8 years ago.

Being a P Plater and at the wrong place at the wrong time...

flappist · 10-10-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZENU

It exists alright; and i have a $120 fine to prove it from 8 years ago.

Being a P Plater and at the wrong place at the wrong time...

But being a P plater couldn't you use the "Can't stop safely" defence?

After all P platers can't do ANYTHING safely.........

TZENU · 10-10-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

But being a P plater couldn't you use the "Can't stop safely" defence?

After all P platers can't do ANYTHING safely.........

Tried that! But the officer didn't want to play

:

AUIIForte · 19-10-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

But being a P plater couldn't you use the "Can't stop safely" defence?

After all P platers can't do ANYTHING safely.........

Speaking from your own personal experience? Because I didn't sense any sarcasm there.

DOC · 10-10-2008, 10:10 AM

Half the problem is people read the lights wrong

green = flat out
amber = flat out in a hurry
red = slam the skids

(my view only) lights should be read one color ahead of time i.e what is the next color not the current one.

green = prepare to stop ( in your minds eye, look at your environment around you , rear vision sides front as the next color will be amber )

amber = stop ( if safe to do so from step one above, this does not mean slam the skids if already on top of the intersection or unsafe to do so i.e driver behind you doing their nails and likely to rear end you )

red = prepare to move of and go

the amber rush to save to seconds is a big cause of those people waiting to turn right on amber/red getting cleaned up as the lone assassin comes screeching through the one remaining gap in the traffic at bottle neck to beat the red.

superpursuit83 · 10-10-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

Half the problem is people read the lights wrong

green = flat out
amber = flat out in a hurry
red = slam the skids

(my view only) lights should be read one color ahead of time i.e what is the next color not the current one.

green = prepare to stop ( in your minds eye, look at your environment around you , rear vision sides front as the next color will be amber )

amber = stop ( if safe to do so from step one above, this does not mean slam the skids if already on top of the intersection or unsafe to do so i.e driver behind you doing their nails and likely to rear end you )

red = prepare to move of and go

the amber rush to save to seconds is a big cause of those people waiting to turn right on amber/red getting cleaned up as the lone assassin comes screeching through the one remaining gap in the traffic at bottle neck to beat the red.

Ya got it all wrong Doc..

GREEN = Slow down and upset the truck behind
AMBER = Floor it
RED = CHANGE LANES!

Mr Brooksy · 10-10-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superpursuit83

Ya got it all wrong Doc..

GREEN = Slow down and upset the truck behind
AMBER = Floor it
RED = CHANGE LANES!

No No No!

Its:

GREEN = go through, and get ahead of the guy beside you.
AMBER = go through and smile at the poor bloke trying to turn right, even when he's been waiting for 2 cycles of lights.
RED = GO THROUGH, why stop? With fuel prices these days who can afford to waste fuel on sitting at lights and accelerating away? Im sure they think they are saving the environment or something!

I think the best form of traffic control is (after testing everyone on knowledge, and driving skills every 5 years, and tighter scrutiny for the driving instructors) having lights count down on a LED board next to the traffic lights! I saw them in China and they are a great idea! I know they are expensive, but put cameras on each set of lights and (judgeing by the IDIOTS running REDS nowdays) they'd pay themselves off in... oh, maybe 1 month! Ok so Im exaggerating a little on the cost side of things...

superpursuit83 · 15-10-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

No No No!

Its:

GREEN = go through, and get ahead of the guy beside you.
AMBER = go through and smile at the poor bloke trying to turn right, even when he's been waiting for 2 cycles of lights.
RED = GO THROUGH, why stop? With fuel prices these days who can afford to waste fuel on sitting at lights and accelerating away? Im sure they think they are saving the environment or something!

I think the best form of traffic control is (after testing everyone on knowledge, and driving skills every 5 years, and tighter scrutiny for the driving instructors) having lights count down on a LED board next to the traffic lights! I saw them in China and they are a great idea! I know they are expensive, but put cameras on each set of lights and (judgeing by the IDIOTS running REDS nowdays) they'd pay themselves off in... oh, maybe 1 month! Ok so Im exaggerating a little on the cost side of things...

Ok, different rules in WA

XR6_661 · 10-10-2008, 10:11 AM

I know all too well about this.

Went through and amber and was past it before the light went red. Didn't boot it or anything. Cop came racing out an waved me down. I said I couldn't have stopped in time, but he didn't take a bar of it. I actually felt a bit bullied, but what can ya do?

$225, 3 points.

Wound me up on a good driving behaviour bond for 12 months. It was either that or 3 month suspension. I now have a curfew (cant drive after 11pm) and if I do anything wrong and get caught, I'm off to court and loss of license for 6 months.

maccamom · 10-10-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_661

I know all too well about this.

Went through and amber and was past it before the light went red. Didn't boot it or anything. Cop came racing out an waved me down. I said I couldn't have stopped in time, but he didn't take a bar of it. I actually felt a bit bullied, but what can ya do?

$225, 3 points.

Wound me up on a good driving behaviour bond for 12 months. It was either that or 3 month suspension. I now have a curfew (cant drive after 11pm) and if I do anything wrong and get caught, I'm off to court and loss of license for 6 months.

You should have challenged the fine, paying it is an admission of liability. At the end of the day the Police must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that is was unsafe to stop in the circumstances.

I have had a conversation with a police member a couple of years back after being told I was going to be fined. I explained the facts that he needed to prove, in a non smart ar%%, fashion, and that I disagreed with his opinion. Certain fine changed to warning which has no basis anyway.

Don't be intimidated, fair enough if you give it the boot where there was clear time to stop you are in trouble, mine was definitely not safe and was in wet weather.

XR6_661 · 10-10-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccamom

You should have challenged the fine, paying it is an admission of liability. At the end of the day the Police must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that is was unsafe to stop in the circumstances.

I have had a conversation with a police member a couple of years back after being told I was going to be fined. I explained the facts that he needed to prove, in a non smart ar%%, fashion, and that I disagreed with his opinion. Certain fine changed to warning which has no basis anyway.

Don't be intimidated, fair enough if you give it the boot where there was clear time to stop you are in trouble, mine was definitely not safe and was in wet weather.

Gotta think of costs with this kind of stuff. Chances of winning, etc etc.

I weighed it up and it was just easier and cheaper to cop the $225. I'm not fussed about the GDB period. It's only for 12 months and I have 4 left to go.

blueoval · 10-10-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccamom

You should have challenged the fine, paying it is an admission of liability. At the end of the day the Police must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that is was unsafe to stop in the circumstances.

I have had a conversation with a police member a couple of years back after being told I was going to be fined. I explained the facts that he needed to prove, in a non smart ar%%, fashion, and that I disagreed with his opinion. Certain fine changed to warning which has no basis anyway.

Don't be intimidated, fair enough if you give it the boot where there was clear time to stop you are in trouble, mine was definitely not safe and was in wet weather.

You did well in that situation. I think the key with what you did was to not give cheek or an arrogant attitude. Explaining it in a way that is respectable and logical can sometimes pay off. But it depends on the type of cop at the time.

Most cops here is SA dont like to be proven wrong even if its written. They feel undermined on their authority and it can pee them off.

Stefan · 16-10-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccamom

You should have challenged the fine, paying it is an admission of liability. At the end of the day the Police must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that is was unsafe to stop in the circumstances.

I have had a conversation with a police member a couple of years back after being told I was going to be fined. I explained the facts that he needed to prove, in a non smart ar%%, fashion, and that I disagreed with his opinion. Certain fine changed to warning which has no basis anyway.

Don't be intimidated, fair enough if you give it the boot where there was clear time to stop you are in trouble, mine was definitely not safe and was in wet weather.

Are you for real, or did you make this up after watching LA Law? If this is true you got lucky! Cops don't need to proove anything when issuing a traffic fine. Traffic offences are not like criminal or civil proceedings were a proof of guilt is required. The offence being witnessed by the cop is the proof.

Sounds like you just got a dumb cop.

maccamom · 17-10-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Are you for real, or did you make this up after watching LA Law? If this is true you got lucky! Cops don't need to proove anything when issuing a traffic fine. Traffic offences are not like criminal or civil proceedings were a proof of guilt is required. The offence being witnessed by the cop is the proof.

Sounds like you just got a dumb cop.

Deadly serious.

Police have an absolute evidentiary burden, they are not judge, jury and executioner. That is why when you receive a fine you have the option of appeal.

There are two ways you can have an offence proven.

1. You pay the fine - an admission of liability
2. You are found guilty of the offence in court - liability imposed by court

This is no different for any alleged offence be it speeding, assault or something more serious. Traffic offences are treated no differently to any other area of law. Police issue a fine in reasonable belief that an offence has been committed, you are not guilty until you pay the fine and admit liability or the court imposes the liability to pay. Police witnessing a burnout for example have reasonable belief to issue the fine based on what they have observed, it's not absolute proof. The only time you are guilty of the burnout and it goes on you record is when the fine is paid or you take the matter to court and lose.

The cop I had was no doubt one that wanted to avoid another petty court appearance and the paperwork it entails. He wasn't dumb at all, I think it was a smart move for both parties.

The amount of people that pay fines they dispute is really interesting, I know often it's the inconvenience and the expenses of solicitors etc. but think about it this way, by paying the fine you are admitting the offence occurred...

gozza · 10-10-2008, 10:16 AM

I was pulled over for cruising through an orange - Funny thing was i didn't want to brake abruptly out of courtesy for the police officer behind me.

They didn't fine me and said i should stop unless its not safe - which is what i was doing

mongoloid · 10-10-2008, 10:30 AM

In WA (dunno about aother states) we have these large signs with amber lights on them that say 'prepare to stop when lights are flashing'. They are generally used after a long stretch of 110kph road.

When these lights start flashing, it signals me to nail it so i can get thru just as the amber starts...

xr8-200 · 10-10-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoloid

In WA (dunno about aother states) we have these large signs with amber lights on them that say 'prepare to stop when lights are flashing'. They are generally used after a long stretch of 110kph road.

When these lights start flashing, it signals me to nail it so i can get thru just as the amber starts...

haha. So your saying there is an exemption from speed limits when an amber light is flashing.

fmc351 · 10-10-2008, 02:06 PM

This stuff is all common sense, of course you cant just go through an orange because you want too, that would make it a green. Defeats the purpose of having an orange.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackers10

i prefer the light style in i think its sweden or somthing... the light has a timer that tells you how long till it goes red or green so EVERYONE knows when its going to change next in big digital numbers

I think something similar would help, I dont know about a timer, but if green flashed a couple times before turning to orange, it would help.

Yeah yeah, I know thats what Orange is for, a pre orange if you like. Orange actually provides a buffer time to clear an intersection as well as a buffer for those too close to stop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoloid

In WA (dunno about aother states) we have these large signs with amber lights on them that say 'prepare to stop when lights are flashing'. They are generally used after a long stretch of 110kph road.

We have those in places, usually where theres an accident hotspot, or the lights are not visible due to a blind corner.