global warming myth or fact ? the new ice age

FGII-XR6 · 24-04-2008, 01:58 PM

just cam accross this http://www.bigpond.com/news/technolo...24/2225980.asp and it raises some questions about global warming. will driving our cars more protect against an ice age if so bring on the 7 litre super cars like the Boss 777 engine in the FG

( http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182...+they+say+2009...!)? lets face it scientists have been wron before and I have always felt global warming was a largly natural event. the earth goes through cycles of temperature extremes. now I don't want to see this become a rant but inteligent input is welcome. also please keep your replys non political or this thread will end up like many others, closed

Rodp · 24-04-2008, 05:14 PM

While it does appear to be a cyclical event, going by statistics of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere and the current trend, I certainly think we're helping the cycle along more than just a tad.

I'm not quite convinced of the doom and gloom ramifications in the long term by the extra pollutants in our atmosphere but it certainly can't be helping. Just like a smoker will tell you there's no definitive proof that smoking kills.

RG · 24-04-2008, 05:19 PM

Global Warming has happened on a large scale before so I don't see the need for all the current scare campaigns. I mean really if the Earth had never warmed before what ended the last Ice Age?

Bossxr8 · 24-04-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell

Global Warming has happened on a large scale before so I don't see the need for all the current scare campaigns. I mean really if the Earth had never warmed before what ended the last Ice Age?

Exactly. Doesn't matter whether the world warms or not, the whole human race is doomed anyway, whether that be by asteroid, ice age or catastrophic natural disaster. Its just a matter of when, could be tomorrow, could be in 10,000 years time. Just look at the dinosaurs.

Can't help but think of the Tool song Anaema. "Mums gunna fix it all soon, put it back the way it outta be", referring to Mother Nature.

RG · 24-04-2008, 05:19 PM

Double post

mikestp · 24-04-2008, 05:15 PM

Global warming doesnt exist, it was invented by toyota so that people would buy the prius

Nikked · 24-04-2008, 07:18 PM

This is why i didn't by in to the 'Almist' or 'trendy' Global warming fad, because there is no definant proof that we are causing harm to the earths temperature (for sustable human life) We whould be concentrating more on helping hungry people for example, rather then spending millons on "cooling the globe" because its the latest, coolest thing to do.

Bossxr8 · 24-04-2008, 08:31 PM

Pretty sure that over the last few years the earths average temperatures have actually dropped slightly anyway, this whole global warming thing is a crock. Ice levels in Antartica have been reported as actually being bigger too.

philstoj · 24-04-2008, 08:47 PM

Global warming, i wish i come up with that idea and marketed it, id be a multi billionaire......

Biggest con job, and best way for the spin doctors to make plenty!!

Also plenty idiots to help feed them..

rodderz · 24-04-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philstoj

Global warming, i wish i come up with that idea and marketed it, id be a multi billionaire......

Biggest con job, and best way for the spin doctors to make plenty!!

Also plenty idiots to help feed them..

yup I agree Phil

Sure I do believe pollution has contributed to our environment, but the amount of stories and theries that get bandied about it seems like the scientific geeks are have a contest with one another about the latest "in" theory

It's like listening to the boy who cried bloody wolf!

philstoj · 24-04-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

yup I agree Phil

Sure I do believe pollution has contributed to our environment, but the amount of stories and theries that get bandied about it seems like the scientific geeks are have a contest with one another about the latest "in" theory

It's like listening to the boy who cried bloody wolf!

Its all in the funding for them mate, and the lack of it, but if they scare the pants off everyone with all these scary stories, they certainly will get the extra funding, by the barrow load...

I wonder how the govt pays for it.

tufLTD · 24-04-2008, 08:59 PM

They say that global warming will caused the polar ice caps to melt & sea levels to rise.
But here's my question. Doesn't water expand when frozen? Therefore, if the ice caps melt, wouldn't the sea levels drop?

burnz · 24-04-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tufLTD

They say that global warming will caused the polar ice caps to melt & sea levels to rise.
But here's my question. Doesn't water expand when frozen? Therefore, if the ice caps melt, wouldn't the sea levels drop?

no ice float's and most of it is on land.

tufLTD · 24-04-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

no ice float's and most of it is on land.

It floats because it expands when frozen, weighing less than liquid water but occupying more area. Less than 10% of an iceberg is above water.
As for ice on land, it accounts for way less than 1% of the total water volume on earth. If it all melted, most would be captured in lakes & inland seas and that which made it to the ocean would account for 3/5ths of FA of the total water volume. Would this really raise the sea levels by metres?

Hords · 08-05-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tufLTD

It floats because it expands when frozen, weighing less than liquid water but occupying more area. Less than 10% of an iceberg is above water.
As for ice on land, it accounts for way less than 1% of the total water volume on earth. If it all melted, most would be captured in lakes & inland seas and that which made it to the ocean would account for 3/5ths of FA of the total water volume. Would this really raise the sea levels by metres?

Why was it that during the last ice ages you could walk to Tassie, the Yarra flowed out to sea at Port Phillip heads, etc?

OLDFORDNUT · 24-04-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tufLTD

They say that global warming will caused the polar ice caps to melt & sea levels to rise.
But here's my question. Doesn't water expand when frozen? Therefore, if the ice caps melt, wouldn't the sea levels drop?

this is what friends and i have been saying for a couple of years,
if ice all melts then sea should drop by a few inch's, the really amazing thing is we were told sea levals could rise by a foot or so and this would effect quite a lots of places that are only a foot or so above sea,yet in last few months this has turned into a few meters,come on media and self interested scientists how has itgone from a foot or two to a couple of meters in the last year.
what we really have to worry about is the sea temp and flow directions of thermal currents,that are affected greatly by huge forests of trees being mowed down by the week which results in huge storms

PHATXR8 · 25-04-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholas

if ice all melts then sea should drop by a few inch's, the really amazing thing is we were told sea levals could rise by a foot or so

Thye main reason that they are predicting sea level rises is because of the melting of the ice in the world which is not in/on the sea, rather it is the ice on land that will melt and cause sea levels to rise.

Has anyone noticed the studies released recently that 98% of the earths galciers have shrunk significantly in the past 35 years, and particularly the past 5 years. In factonly 2 glaciers out of several hundred in the world have got larger in the past couple of years.

gz1 · 24-04-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tufLTD

They say that global warming will caused the polar ice caps to melt & sea levels to rise.
But here's my question. Doesn't water expand when frozen? Therefore, if the ice caps melt, wouldn't the sea levels drop?

Quite right, however as Ice floats, the expanded part stays above the water.
Try this experiment: Get a bowl filled with water and ice. Mark the level of the water. Wait for the ice to melt. See the level has not changed one bit.

burnz · 24-04-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz1

Quite right, however as Ice floats, the expanded part stays above the water.
Try this experiment: Get a bowl filled with water and ice. Mark the level of the water. Wait for the ice to melt. See the level has not changed one bit.

next time you pour a drink put some ice cube's in and see how much displacement their is.

mikestp · 08-05-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

next time you pour a drink put some ice cube's in and see how much displacement their is.

That is of no relevance at all, if you add some ice to a glass of water, of course the water will rise. That is completely different to ice that is already in the water melting.

Wally · 08-05-2009, 11:43 PM

I guess we are so conditioned to fads these days we can't conceive the global warming issue is anything but a passing phase. Life was much easier when the word came from an English or German scientist rather than a hack US politician.

futura97 · 09-05-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tufLTD

They say that global warming will caused the polar ice caps to melt & sea levels to rise.
But here's my question. Doesn't water expand when frozen? Therefore, if the ice caps melt, wouldn't the sea levels drop?

I'm with burnz on this one, and think your wrong.

Heres an experiment that will proove it for you -

get a glass with some water in it
now add a few ice blocks
come back in a few hours after the ice has melted
and you will see the water has risen.

MO · 09-05-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by futura97

I'm with burnz on this one, and think your wrong.

Heres an experiment that will proove it for you -

get a glass with some water in it
now add a few ice blocks
come back in a few hours after the ice has melted
and you will see the water has risen.

But don't forget on the larger/global scale there is also evaporation rates to consider.

futura97 · 09-05-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

But don't forget on the larger/global scale there is also evaporation rates to consider.

Which would eventually fall back to land/sea anyway...

xtremerus · 09-05-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by futura97

I'm with burnz on this one, and think your wrong.

Heres an experiment that will proove it for you -

get a glass with some water in it
now add a few ice blocks
come back in a few hours after the ice has melted
and you will see the water has risen.

You haven't actually done this experiment to come to that conclusion.
It does not rise.

futura97 · 09-05-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

You haven't actually done this experiment to come to that conclusion.
It does not rise.

So what happens then? Must have seen things when i tried it

flappist · 09-05-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by futura97

So what happens then? Must have seen things when i tried it

The density of the ice is less than the water so it floats. The mass of the ice displaces the same mass of water to set the level.

When the ice melts it becomes water and is therefore the same density so displaces the same as before so the level does not change.

Archimedes in ancient Greece (250BC +/-) is credited for the discovery of this principle.

The big whinge about oceans rising is that most ice in the world is not floating it is on land.

ILLaViTaR · 11-05-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tufLTD

They say that global warming will caused the polar ice caps to melt & sea levels to rise.
But here's my question. Doesn't water expand when frozen? Therefore, if the ice caps melt, wouldn't the sea levels drop?

Nope they'd rise massively.

Lots of ice is out of the water/above sea level, when it melts it'll go straight into the ocean.