Welding fuel tanks

[LG17]

For all those contemplating welding fuel tanks and offering advice to others, I believe you are playing with fire.
It doesn't matter how many times an amateur flushes a tank, or passes inert gases through it, it only takes the smallest error and others will be picking up the pieces of you they can find from all over the place.
You may offer advice and someone tries it following that advice.
One small mistake and that's it.


As much of a temptation it is to do it yourself, I think it's absolute madness.

[Tassie f100]

Totally agree. I had an aquaintance die whilst actually cuting a hole in a tank.He had considered it safe because it had been empty for a long time,but the fumes were still in the seams.When some “expert” tells you it is safe,you may never know that is wasn,t.WHAT IS YOUR LIFE WORTH??. I,m sure its a bit more than a couple of hundred dollar petrol tank!!

[Fordman1]

Ford steel fuel tanks all had their welds done with a certified rolling resistance welder ( with one continuous overlapping weld ).

The tanks were then 100 % pressure tested in plant.

But no one should repair a tank that has been filled.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Totally agree. I had an aquaintance die whilst actually cuting a hole in a tank.He had considered it safe because it had been empty for a long time,but the fumes were still in the seams.When some “expert” tells you it is safe,you may never know that is wasn,t.WHAT IS YOUR LIFE WORTH??. I,m sure its a bit more than a couple of hundred dollar petrol tank!!

I had a friend blown to pieces welding one. Now, it wasn't his first but more likely his hundredth. It was part of his business. He was as careful as but one small spark and that was it.

[pottery beige]

fill it up with water and washing powder

bubbles will put the burns out

[Tassie f100]

If you were writing a cartoon I would laugh,but I think you are serious

[happy1]

Hi,
I have been using vacuum cleaner to remove flammable gasses, and keep the vacuum cleaner going at full pace through one of the two openings while welding.

As mentioned above, It is better not to weld a fuel tank, but there are times when you cannot purchase a certain fuel tank, for example repair rust in a vintage tank, or a modification such as fitting barbs suitable for EFI.

Cheers

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

I have welded fuel tanks, actually it's the one in my coupe, which is a rare long range tank and quite valuable.

I would never recommend it, as most people these days have the common sense of a common earth worm, and they would be totally unable to do a valid risk assessment. Even though it should be considered a process of natural selection, I would still feel bad if someone blew themselves up just because they took my advice, but were incapable of making the correct assessment. (hence I have never given advice on this topic)

And as LG17 mentioned, even experienced people can come unstuck, I find sometimes experienced people will get complacent and complacency can be deadly in this case.

My assessment and advice is with LG17 don't do it.

Happy 1 and his vacuum cleaner idea is a perfect example of how common sense is lacking and of someone that emergency services workers will be scraping off the shed walls and ceiling provided the shed is still there. Anyone reading this thread, please do NOT take his advice and don't try this at home

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by happy1

Hi,
I have been using vacuum cleaner

the welding courses i've done said they have to boil the tanks for several hours before they are safe to weld.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

the welding courses i've done said they have to boil the tanks for several hours before they are safe to weld.

Hello,
Not being a smart**** but how do you boil a 20,000 litre fuel tank?...and for several hours?

I am assuming its steam clean?..several times!

Cheers Billy.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hello,
Not being a smart**** but how do you boil a 20,000 litre fuel tank?...and for several hours?

I am assuming its steam clean?..several times!

Cheers Billy.

when I use to work at a tank degassing place in my youth many many years ago (prier to my apprenticeship as a diesel fitter)
we worked on road and rail tankers and part of my job was cleaning them to ready for hot works (as well as assisting in the hot works , and im still here now)
we use to fully fill them with water unboiled (how do you boil water in a road or rail tanker ? ) and leave for 24hrs then drain and get inside and with (the correct) cleaning agents scrub clean the inside with a high pressure steam cleaner , and then refill with water to remove any residue cleaning agent

ps avgas needs to keep the moisture out and has something inside to assist this ~ I learnt this the hard way after starting the fill process and had to get in waist deep to remove this and unfortunately dropped it dur in the removal

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by wodahs

when I use to work at a tank degassing place in my youth many many years ago (prier to my apprenticeship as a diesel fitter)
we worked on road and rail tankers and part of my job was cleaning them to ready for hot works (as well as assisting in the hot works , and im still here now)
we use to fully fill them with water unboiled (how do you boil water in a road or rail tanker ? ) and leave for 24hrs then drain and get inside and with (the correct) cleaning agents scrub clean the inside with a high pressure steam cleaner , and then refill with water to remove any residue cleaning agent

ps avgas needs to keep the moisture out and has something inside to assist this ~ I learnt this the hard way after starting the fill process and had to get in waist deep to remove this and unfortunately dropped it dur in the removal

Hello,
So what were you welding?
Were you cleaning tanks or welding tanks?
Were you pre cleaning tanks for the welders to repair?..or cleaning them because they were contaminated and another product was going in?

I worked on the fuel supply for F 111 fighters in 1978 at Amberly Air Base.
So I worked on the supply pipes from the Tank Farm to the hangers.
I watched RAAF personnel clean the fuel tanks on these planes,at a distance,they used steam cleaners,chemicals etc and the poor defenceless buggers went into the wings etc.

The security guards took my 110 film cartridges from me when full,24 images,they gave them back all developed with anything sensitive missing,ie..negatives cut out,I probably got 10 pics per 24,eh free development.

The only time I have filled a fuel tank with water,(20,000L) was another avgas tank farm,very small,2 tanks,half in and half out the ground and a besserblock containment wall in case of leaks.
It was Maroochydore airport in 1979,it was filled so it would not float out of the concrete after the pour.
We welded the supply pipes not tanks,but they float out of the concrete!.

Cheers Guillaume.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by LG17

For all those contemplating welding fuel tanks and offering advice to others, I believe you are playing with fire.
It doesn't matter how many times an amateur flushes a tank, or passes inert gases through it, it only takes the smallest error and others will be picking up the pieces of you they can find from all over the place.
You may offer advice and someone tries it following that advice.
One small mistake and that's it.


As much of a temptation it is to do it yourself, I think it's absolute madness.

Probably a thread started in contemplation of the work we did on my tank in the Holden thread.

I am not offering advice to others. My advice is that unless you are sure of something you should not do it.

FWIW, that tank was very safe to weld. It had been washed out a number of times and triple checked. It was then filled completely with water before a plate was tack welded to the top of the tank.

Let's list other things you should never do
- Never do work on suspension or brakes unless you are a qualified mechanic.
- Never attempt rust repairs unless you are a qualified panel beater or fabricator.
- Never work on fuel systems. Carbs or injection or replace pumps etc unless qualified to do so.
-Never work on car electrical systems unless a qualified auto electrician.

Maybe we can close the project section and start it up as "cheque book builds" Where we pay people to do all the work on our cars.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by cs123

Probably a thread started in contemplation of the work we did on my tank in the Holden thread.

I am not offering advice to others. My advice is that unless you are sure of something you should not do it.

FWIW, that tank was very safe to weld. It had been washed out a number of times and triple checked. It was then filled completely with water before a plate was tack welded to the top of the tank.

Let's list other things you should never do
- Never do work on suspension or brakes unless you are a qualified mechanic.
- Never attempt rust repairs unless you are a qualified panel beater or fabricator.
- Never work on fuel systems. Carbs or injection or replace pumps etc unless qualified to do so.
-Never work on car electrical systems unless a qualified auto electrician.

Maybe we can close the project section and start it up as "cheque book builds" Where we pay people to do all the work on our cars.

Yours was one of them that reminded me of the consequences but I certainly didn't mean this as a dig.


There's a massive difference between fixing a bit of rust or doing some mechanical work as opposed to the real chance of blowing yourself up.


It's not about cheque book builds. I guess it's just a personal thing from experience that I believe that it's the one job that should be farmed out.

[Work Horse]

I remember years ago, ripping into a mate who wanted to pay a professional to change the exhaust manifold gasket on the six cylinder in his HK Holden. I shamed him into it, explained how easy it was and how it would save him money.

He followed my instructions, except did not disconnect the battery. He wanted to listen to the car stereo while he worked, and left the front doors open so he could hear it.....

He dropped a spanner onto the starter which created a circuit and supplied power to the started. The car was left in reverse, hand brake not applied so began moving backward.

The car was stopped by the door catching the gate posts as it past through a gateway. The doors were so badly damaged they had to be replaced.

Not sure what the moral to my story is...

[Mercury Bullet]

We had the fuel tank on the race boat welded a few times.
No problems when done by professionals, they filled it with argon or Halon iirc.


Then one day I was at Greenwood a few years ago and there was an almighty explosion.
Bloke literally blew his double brick house, and himself up. Welding the tank.

If you don't know what you're doing, call someone who does.
It's the fumes that explode not the petrol, when they are empty they are bombs.

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Not sure what the moral to my story is...

Maybe we all have our own limits?

[Sox]

I've welded plenty of fuel tanks.
It's easy if you use your head and have been doing that kind of thing for a long time.

People will blow themselves up or run themselves over no matter what we say...

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Sox

I've welded plenty of fuel tanks.
It's easy if you use your head and have been doing that kind of thing for a long time.

People will blow themselves up or run themselves over no matter what we say...

Yeah the first 99 might be good!No 100 just might get you,but you won,t know,so I guess it doesn,t worry you

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Yeah the first 99 might be good!No 100 just might get you,but you won,t know,so I guess it doesn,t worry you

Yeh you're probably right.

I don't think I'll get out of bed tomorrow either as I might fall down the stairs.
Come to think of it, I might not even get up from this computer in case I trip over the dog, break my arm, fall through the floor, lie on the dirt under the house, and then get eaten by a grizzly bear.
To top it off I'll probably go to hell because I'm being such a sarcastic bugger...

That would be bad.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Sox

Yeh you're probably right.



I don't think I'll get out of bed tomorrow either as I might fall down the stairs.

Come to think of it, I might not even get up from this computer in case I trip over the dog, break my arm, fall through the floor, lie on the dirt under the house, and then get eaten by a grizzly bear.

To top it off I'll probably go to hell because I'm being such a sarcastic bugger...



That would be bad.

No grizzly bears in Australia mate. Other than that all above could happen. Especially as you are quite advanced in age and getting a bit unsteady

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

No grizzly bears in Australia mate. Other than that all above could happen. Especially as you are quite advanced in age and getting a bit unsteady

You sure?
I had something the size of a grizzly bear (but much uglier and dumber) sit on me just a few weeks back...

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Yeah the first 99 might be good!No 100 just might get you,but you won,t know,so I guess it doesn,t worry you

Hello,
Absolutely spot on,commonsense and confidence!
Not sure?..then get someone else to do it!

Cheers Billy.

[Olbucko]

The same applies to 44 gal drums that have contained petrol, if you are thinking of cutting the top off, DON'T, It may be the last thing you will ever do.

[BENT_8]

I had a 2000 model Jackaroo a while back and had it converted to gas.
When they install the tanks on them they remove the petrol tank and install a sub tank under the drivers side floor.
I wasnt paying the $2k they wanted to supply a new sub tank and reconnect the petrol so i got them to fit the gas with a primer button and ran it on straight gas for a few weeks.
In that time i sourced a second hand tank from U pull it which had the customery hole in it that they drill to ensure its empty.
I took it to an engineers shop and paid them $80 to seal it up, took it home, fitted the fuel pump from my factory tank which is a straight swap and installed it, put the relay back in, flicked the switch to petrol and away she went.
Stuffed if i'd play around with it for the sake of $80.

[slowsnake]

Hello,
I must of cut and welded every fuel tank you can imagine, including- a 15 yr old Harley Davidson tank,sliced and tear dropped,underground petrol and diesel tanks from service stations,aluminium truck tanks,converting to 50/50 diesel and hydraulic,boat tanks and car tanks etc,etc.

1- Never touch a tank that is seamed or flanged,unless you really know what you are doing,these are ok if filled to the brim with water,and leave the filler open and make sure to remove sender unit or you have a pressure vessel if there are any air gaps.

2- If the tank is unseamed do the usual soapy water wash and do not fill with water,some tanks hold 30,000 litres of water,its not timely or economical,find a diesel engine car or truck and run a pipe from exhaust into tank,again have 2 openings,even if you have to " drill then fill "

3- Use your commonsense?... Not intelligence or IQ but plain old commonsense,so out in the open,no sheds or garages, no enclosed spaces, and remove everything flammable, including rags and paper not just thinners or petrol products, the preparation is more important than the welding to be carried out!

4- If you have the slightest doubt about doing it then get a professional to do it...believe me there are thousands of experts out there,most are 6 foot underground.

Cheers Billy.

Boilermaker/welder,TAFE qualified.

Coded welder,TAFE qualified.

Welding Supervisor,TAFE qualified.

Just use your bloody commonsense!

[Crazy Dazz]

It IS as well to remember that some things can and will kill you.

Slip up with a handsaw, and you may get a nasty gash. Slip up with a chainsaw and you may lose a limb or worse.

Forget to turn the water off before DIY plumbing and you can get bloody wet.
Forget to turn the power off before DIY electrical and you can get bloody dead.

Petrol vapour (and other things such as Propane) are ****ing dangerous.
Years back a boat at the yacht club exploded because he didn't ventilate the bilge after fuelling and the starter motor ignited the vapours.
And I don't mean that it caught fire, it EXPLODED.
He survived only because he was on the flybridge, and was literally blown clear, yet the force of the blast broke his legs.

[LTDHO]

I just hat a hole in my XB tank welded.

No issues.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I just hat a hole in my XB tank welded.

No issues.

Hello,
The XA,XB tank is one of the craziest designs I have ever seen on a car,are we talking about the tank that incorporates the spare wheel?...there are more seams in them than an underground coalmine!.. lol...
Well done to the person who welded/repaired it for you!

Cheers Billy.

[ronwest]

Many years ago I had a leak in a seam on a 100 gallon truck fuel tank (diesel).

Our mechanic told me to go fuel up and fill the tank to the brim.

Did so, returned to him and he stick-welded the seam.

I told him I was nervous about it but he reckoned he'd done dozens over the years.