Is all wheel drive necessary or a gimmick for most cars?

turbodewd · 05-04-2012, 05:26 PM

Ignoring sports cars (WRX, Nissan GTR), is AWD really necessary? Take the Subaru Liberty - its not going to be driven to its limits to need 4WD by the types of people who drive it. Is it really going to make any difference to the driving experience puttering around suburbia or a CBD?

My dad isnt into cars at all, he would have no idea NOR could he tell if his car was AWD. But he, or anyone, could tell what fuel economy they were getting roughly, i.e $ per full tank and how far they'd get on it.

I ask coz if you look at how the Subaru Liberty 3.6R sedan stacks up to the Falcon...the Falcon truly eats it. So what if the Liberty has AWD?! The falcon pips it on fuel economy and power and torque. And the EcoLPI falcon even more so! And the Subie only runs a 5-spd auto...

Mr Hardware · 05-04-2012, 05:28 PM

Simple answer is that it is not necessary. But neither are 8 cylinders or wings or metallic paint.

turbodewd · 05-04-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Simple answer is that it is not necessary. But neither are 8 cylinders or wings or metallic paint.

Yes, but my old man could undoubtedly feel the extra grunt of a V8 and could see other 2 things if they suited his tastes...

dylancox · 05-04-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Yes, but my old man could undoubtedly feel the extra grunt of a V8 and could see other 2 things if they suited his tastes...

Is 4 wheels even necessary? You can feel plenty of grunt and get plenty of fuel economy with just 2 wheels and 1 wheel drive. You can even have a nice engine note.

.

GCRXR6 · 06-04-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylancox

Is 4 wheels even necessary? You can feel plenty of grunt and get plenty of fuel economy with just 2 wheels and 1 wheel drive. You can even have a nice engine note.

.

Nothing sounds as good as a single pot 500cc Jawa.

Nikked · 05-04-2012, 05:34 PM

AWD can give people a better sense of saftey, especially in adverse contitions.

kocho · 05-04-2012, 05:36 PM

I love my AWD Liberty. It's a nice change from RWD (which is still great) and I don't want to be the owner of a FWD car because they aren't good to drive in my opinion.

I haven't driven the latest Liberty, so I can't comment on that specifically, but I have driven the 3.0L Gen IV. Fantastic car to drive too.

"So what if the Liberty has AWD" - Boy, you haven't seen what AWD can really do have you? It's an incredible system.

In terms of how a 3.6 Lib stack up with the Falcon, I'd say they're fairly different cars to drive. But then you say is it going to make a difference around suburbia, well, you could ask yourself why you have such a big engine for the city (I know you live in Canberra and you've got 80 and 100 zones all over the joint).

@ Nikked a better sense of saftey? Are you saying that it isn't safer or...?

And, for what it's worth, not many AWD systems are the same as Subaru's.

Nikked · 05-04-2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kocho

I

@ Nikked a better sense of saftey? Are you saying that it isn't safer or...?

Well, better grip on wet roads etc...

turbodewd · 05-04-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kocho

In terms of how a 3.6 Lib stack up with the Falcon, I'd say they're fairly different cars to drive. But then you say is it going to make a difference around suburbia, well, you could ask yourself why you have such a big engine for the city (I know you live in Canberra and you've got 80 and 100 zones all over the joint).

Canberrans drive out of Canberra every other weekend so I get plenty of highway kays. More than the average Melbournite, Sydneysider or Brisbanianerite.

The Yeti · 05-04-2012, 05:57 PM

i thought the whole AWD thing was a crock of crap, but Ive driven a few different ones and I really like the feel of how the power goes down in an AWD, its really noticable in somthing like a territory where you can drive a RWD TX and hop in to an AWD TX so its a good apples for apples comparison

forget the off road part that bits pretty much a crock of crap

MITCHAY · 05-04-2012, 06:00 PM

Well it's very unlikely the wheels are going to spin in an AWD Liberty. You don't have to try hard or at all in a Commodore or Falcon.

Mum says her SV6 has caught her out a few times and she has the traction control on and drives responsibly.

Chopped · 05-04-2012, 06:21 PM

I had a AWD liberty and it was great in the wet. Maybe a little understeery when pushed though

(It also liked to chew the tyres)

Whitey-AMG · 05-04-2012, 06:27 PM

We have a 2wd Suzuki Kizashi...... I have also test driven the AWD Kizashi when it was released just to check out the hype.....

AWD is slower , thirstier and felt heavier on the road.....
Actually felt less nimble because of the extra weight.

Can't really say it handled any better either....and I pushed it pretty hard.

I'm guessing there may be an advantage in grip in icy conditions but apart from that....???

svo supporter · 05-04-2012, 06:13 PM

AWD's can get you into trouble quicker than a RWD. It is very easy to overcorrect an AWD, because all 4 wheels are pulling the car, rather than 2.

Are they necessary? No idea. Fuel economy....No idea, as I have never owned one, nor had interest in owning one.

**Raptor** · 05-04-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

AWD's can get you into trouble quicker than a RWD. It is very easy to overcorrect an AWD, because all 4 wheels are pulling the car, rather than 2.

Are they necessary? No idea. Fuel economy....No idea, as I have never owned one, nor had interest in owning one.

I think it's safe to summarise as you have no idea, as you have never owned one, so how about keeping your uninformed opinions to yourself.

"...get you into trouble quicker than a RWD."

I don't think so.

svo supporter · 05-04-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

I think it's safe to summarise as you have no idea, as you have never owned one, so how about keeping your uninformed opinions to yourself.

"...get you into trouble quicker than a RWD."

I don't think so.

Making comments you obviously have no idea about, when it comes to me.

So I'll leave it there, as you're not worth getting banned over.

Spammy · 05-04-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

AWD's can get you into trouble quicker than a RWD. It is very easy to overcorrect an AWD, because all 4 wheels are pulling the car, rather than 2.

.

Complete nonsense

MITCHAY · 05-04-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

AWD's can get you into trouble quicker than a RWD. It is very easy to overcorrect an AWD, because all 4 wheels are pulling the car, rather than 2.

Are they necessary? No idea. Fuel economy....No idea, as I have never owned one, nor had interest in owning one.

I've found with my car when it loses the rear that it comes back pretty easily.

You don't have to give it much if barely any opposite lock and well suffice to say if you over corrected you'd be way worse off in a RWD.

madmatty · 05-04-2012, 08:25 PM

i have a sixpot liberty,had a few subarus over the years also have had heaps of v8 falcons too,i sugest a drive of a awd as the are very good in slippery conditions.they do become a bit undeersteery when pushed hard.try turning right or left for that matter from standing start in the wet or dry even at full or high throttle percentage in a rear wheel drive and you will loose the rear and fight to stay straight,a front wheel drive will not turn at all if the wheels are spinning(i owned a tx3 turbo) but a awd will just grip and go,the subaru systems only engages awd when it detects slip thus 95% of the time it is front wheel drive saving fuel as there is more mecahnical drag with full time fwd.bottom line is my liberty with 180kw will eat my 300kw falcon in the wet,of the mark or in tight corners.dont kock it till you try it.

MAGPIE · 05-04-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmatty

subaru systems only engages awd when it detects slip thus 95% of the time it is front wheel drive saving fuel as there is more mecahnical drag with full time fwd.

There are four different AWD systems within Subaru models
Only the 4EAT does that with a 90/10 split

Centre Diff + LSD (5M/6M) ie manual Legacy/Outback/Forester 2.5/GT/3.0 = 50/50

Active Torque Split MPT (4EAT) ie 2.5 auto Legacy/Outback/Forester = 90/10 until slip is detected then variable or 1st/2nd manually selected then 50/50

Driver’s Control Centre Diff (STi with 6M) ie WRX STi = user chooser

Variable Torque Distribution and Vehicle Dynamics Control (5EAT) ie auto GT/3.0 Legacy/Outback = varies with model year, used to be 40/60

Nikked · 05-04-2012, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

AWD's can get you into trouble quicker than a RWD. It is very easy to overcorrect an AWD, because all 4 wheels are pulling the car, rather than 2.

Are they necessary? No idea. Fuel economy....No idea, as I have never owned one, nor had interest in owning one.

The bit highlighted in blue makes you first sentece redundant...

AWD getting a person into trouble more then RWD?

What are you smoking....

svo supporter · 05-04-2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

The bit highlighted in blue makes you first sentece redundant...

AWD getting a person into trouble more then RWD?

What are you smoking....

You get used to driving a RWD, and what to do when trouble strikes. Apply that to a AWD and see how much drama occurs.

Yeah, never owned one, but driven 1 or 2.

Spammy · 05-04-2012, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

You get used to driving a RWD, and what to do when trouble strikes. Apply that to a AWD and see how much drama occurs.

.

really?

svo supporter · 05-04-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spammy

really?

May I suggest watching rally cars closely how they handle and apply that to my statement.

gtxb67 · 05-04-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

AWD's can get you into trouble quicker than a RWD. It is very easy to overcorrect an AWD, because all 4 wheels are pulling the car, rather than 2.

Are they necessary? No idea. Fuel economy....No idea, as I have never owned one, nor had interest in owning one.

i can see your point. an awd car can bite big time
while an awd will give better grip in probably all applications once in trouble it requires different disciplines to get out of it
in some cases rear wheel drive can be better, just as front wheel drive can be as well

the driver still needs to respect an awd - there have been many wrx's and evo's that have bitten the dust, even though the owner felt invincible moments before

superfly · 06-04-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

the driver still needs to respect an awd - there have been many wrx's and evo's that have bitten the dust, even though the owner felt invincible moments before

Just like there have been heaps of RWD cars that have bitten the dust. Drive like a tool and I'm sure things don't end well regardless of FWD, RWD or AWD.

gtxb67 · 06-04-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfly

Just like there have been heaps of RWD cars that have bitten the dust. Drive like a tool and I'm sure things don't end well regardless of FWD, RWD or AWD.

i have never suggested anything different - all 3 have good points, the awd is probably the best for grip, but when being a tool, a rwd can be easier to bring back into line
however, more often than not, the tool that gets into trouble has no idea on how to get out of it, no matter which wheels are driving

superfly · 06-04-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i have never suggested anything different - all 3 have good points, the awd is probably the best for grip, but when being a tool, a rwd can be easier to bring back into line

This I don't agree with. I believe to the inexperienced an AWD (or even a FWD) is easier to bring in line as they understeer.

svo supporter · 06-04-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i can see your point. an awd car can bite big time
while an awd will give better grip in probably all applications once in trouble it requires different disciplines to get out of it
in some cases rear wheel drive can be better, just as front wheel drive can be as well

the driver still needs to respect an awd - there have been many wrx's and evo's that have bitten the dust, even though the owner felt invincible moments before

As per usual, your common sense prevails with your comments, so thanks.

Yes, it is true, if people are idiots behind the wheel, it doesn't matter what drive system is in place within the vehicle, you're going to come unstuck.

Every type of drive system has it's purpose, so it's a case of deciding what you intend to use the vehicle for before choosing the appriopriate vehicle for your needs.

AU Mont · 05-04-2012, 06:14 PM

well my wife's 90kw Impreza towed my AU VCT out of a boggy marsh (my backyard after the QLD floods)

i was certain that her car would become bogged before i could even tie the rope onto the back, but it pulled the AU out with ease, and didnt spin a wheel doing it lol

i certainly rate the AWD systems. Arent the subaru's FWD full time then 90/10 bias if the front wheel slips?