Another F3/Pacific Highway Debacle

[Paxton]

A B-double truck hit a wall along the F3 freeway near the Hawkesbury River north of Sydney this afternoon, seriously injuring its driver, closing one lane and causing eight-kilometre-long traffic queues.

The truck, which was believed to have been carrying caustic soda, crashed into a sandstone wall at Brooklyn approaching the Hawkesbury River Bridge about 1.20pm and caught fire, a police spokesman said.

The driver, 47, was taken to the Royal North Shore Hospital with head and leg injuries about 2pm and was in a serious but stable condition, a NSW Ambulance spokeswoman said.

One northbound lane remained closed with significantly heavy traffic, the Roads and Traffic Authority of NSW said. All southbound lanes were open.

Earlier, all northbound lanes on the F3 were closed and a contraflow was set up just after 3pm to divert northbound motorists on to southbound lanes north of the Berowra Interchange, a NSW Department of Transport spokeswoman said.

Motorists were warned to expect delays.

The spokeswoman said that, as the accident was expected to take a while to clear, extra train services on the Newcastle and Central Coast line had been added.

The police spokesman said the cause of the accident was not yet known.

This just goes to show that the Former Government's investment in a third lane all goes to waste when a truck incident still closes the only road north out of Sydney.

It is time to work on another solution. Do they fix the Putty Road? Do they go further west? How does Sydney get around its dependance on the F3 to get north of Sydney? I love driving the old road north, but it isn't feasible. Neither is doing nothing to the F3, as one incident anywhere on it, grinds movement out of Sydney to a halt.

[SteveJH]

I don't see the problem? It closed one lane?

Besides, I got stuck for two over hours at bulladelah twice over easter, along with for a while at Macksville. A truck accident can't be predicted, heavy easter traffic is a known quantity and those bypasses should have been finished years ago.

[XRGhia]

It's the RTA's ****ups

They made it so they have to divert everyone off the F3 going in the opposite direction onto the Pacific Highway (so in this case it was southbound), then Northbound traffic is diverted onto the southbound lanes, and drivers have to do 40km/h along the southbound lanes, then merge back over to the Northbound lanes...

I don't see the issue with diverting the affected lanes off the F3, and onto the pacific highway until after the incident spot..


In all, i'm not surprised.. It is the NSW Government..

[Road_Warrior]

I don't know Sydney or NSW roads at all, but if the existing motorway is not coping, and upgrading adjacent or other B-roads that could serve a similar purpose is not workable, then a bypass needs to be built or land resumed for a new arterial road.

Then again, is the problem the amount of traffic or lack of infrastructure?

[phillyc]

Well, the railway line between Newcastle and Sydney used to be faster in the 1930s when steam trains ruled the roost. Terrible. It takes 3hrs by train from CBD to CBD. Outside of peak times, this can be 2hrs by car. It is ~150km each way via the F3.

Between Sydney and Newcastle there is really only the F3, the Old Pacific Hwy and The Putty Rd. The only viable option for bulk traffic right now is the F3 with the other two well past their use by dates.

As a motorcyclist, The Putty Rd, is fantastic, corner after corner in terrific back country. Not made for any viable traffic volumes. The distance would be closer to 250km from CBD to CBD too.

The Old Pacific highway was outgrown by traffic in the 1980s.

What to do then? Do what they did between Perth and Mandurah. Build a new expressway with the railway down the middle. There are certainly some sections which would be engineering headaches being along the Hawkesbury river edges and some tunnels. But what a great opportunity to provide a 2nd option and improve the rail link / speed at the same time. If you have a train whizzing past you as you drive your car, it would give some impetus to thinking about catching it instead of driving if it fitted yor schedule!

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by phillyc

If you have a train whizzing past you as you drive your car, it would give some impetus to thinking about catching it instead of driving if it fitted yor schedule!

Not really, considering the train would potentially be going well over 110km/h.

Especially given the way it looks like they are preparing to scatter Average speed camera's all down the HWY between Newcastle and Taree, haven't been down to Sydney for a couple of months so don't know if they've been putting up the gantries.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I don't know Sydney or NSW roads at all, but if the existing motorway is not coping, and upgrading adjacent or other B-roads that could serve a similar purpose is not workable, then a bypass needs to be built or land resumed for a new arterial road.

Then again, is the problem the amount of traffic or lack of infrastructure?

Its dual carriageway, 110km/h speed limited. Its the main road between Sydney and Newcastle. The Pacific Highway runs alongside most of the way as far as I know.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I don't know Sydney or NSW roads at all, but if the existing motorway is not coping, and upgrading adjacent or other B-roads that could serve a similar purpose is not workable, then a bypass needs to be built or land resumed for a new arterial road.

Then again, is the problem the amount of traffic or lack of infrastructure?

claiming land for road works is always a problem, there could be a frog on that land ......somewhere..(sarcasm)

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by mik

claiming land for road works is always a problem, there could be a frog on that land ......somewhere..(sarcasm)

lol...we had a racetrack proposal shitcanned because of a 'rare donkey orchid'

[mik]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

lol...we had a racetrack proposal shitcanned because of a 'rare donkey orchid'

why does`nt that surprise me , indeed you have to wonder who plans the roads for the general population............or in fact if there is anyone that plans for the roads .

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by mik

claiming land for road works is always a problem, there could be a frog on that land ......somewhere..(sarcasm)

Last year/this year construction work was delayed at Kooragang Island in Newcastle due to a rare frog.

[nb_351]

the main problem i think is the fact that it was a tanker, well the truck, on fire, so they dont want people to be driving past incase of danger im assuming...

[SEZ213]

Caustic soda is toxic. Stands to reason they would close it, and if it's on fire even more so...the vapours are nasty.

As far as roads, if the infrastructure isn't equipped to handle the traffic, it's something that needs to be looked at - I wouldn't expect a quick fix though...for some bizarre reason it takes years to get roads sorted, Ipswich Motorway is a perfect example.

[nb_351]

it always seems to be the dg guys catching on fire too, the ones you dont want to catch fire haha

[Bluehoon]

Just the F3???

K'mon the issues also are:

M2
Pennant Hills Road
James Ruse drive
Windsor Road
M7 onto M2
Pacific Highway from Hornsby into town..

Underlying theme... 16 years of labor rot and all issues are in Northwest Sydney...

You have to fix them all, just one is useless..

Upgrade New England and putty road (extensive) and set it as a freight corridor and let AB triples run there, wise but pricey.
Upgrade pacific to handle heavy traffic, still pricey.

Upgrade rail link and run high capacity freight and commuter - sensible but still pricey...

Speed cameras aren't the solution, they merely slow down the already incompetent enough. Traffic needs to move, not drive in fear of the nanny state...

[SteveJH]

And the state is a lot bigger then just sydney! The money has to go elsewhere as well.

[Jim Goose]

Umm a truck carrying dangerous good crashes and its the governments fault?

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Umm a truck carrying dangerous good crashes and its the governments fault?

Yep, my thoughts exactly, the Putty Road was ruled out years ago due to incidents & insurance companies voiding insurances on trucks using the road. This was back in the Comet, Kwick As Air, Ward's Overniter's days. TNT & Ipec had their fare share of grief on the twisty Putty Road.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Yep, my thoughts exactly, the Putty Road was ruled out years ago due to incidents & insurance companies voiding insurances on trucks using the road. This was back in the Comet, Kwick As Air, Ward's Overniter's days. TNT & Ipec had their fare share of grief on the twisty Putty Road.

As a driver that used to run up and down the putty with Comet, I can certainly understand why transport and insurance companies stopping trucks running the road. There were nights that you had your heart in your mouth, but it was still a buzz.

For that road to get anywhere near to being in the state to run heavy transport again would take more money than the state government could scrape together over the next 50 years.

It just wont happen.

The best solution IMO would be to make the Old Pacific Highway dual carriageway.

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

As a driver that used to run up and down the putty with Comet, I can certainly understand why transport and insurance companies stopping trucks running the road. There were nights that you had your heart in your mouth, but it was still a buzz.

For that road to get anywhere near to being in the state to run heavy transport again would take more money than the state government could scrape together over the next 50 years.

It just wont happen.

The best solution IMO would be to make the Old Pacific Highway dual carriageway.

Gee,I must have passed you somewhere, sometime, on the mighty "Putty" Road. A "buzz" it was, I never had a problem on that road . Would you believe I saw plans for a 4 lane "highway" for the Putty? Reason being there is a heap of buried coal on the western side of the Putty, but for environmental reasons , it was all cancelled. The finding of the "Wollemi Pine" tree has negated any further thoughts of upgrading the Putty. Still, it's a great drive on a cool clear night!!!

[Paxton]

Deleted. Neither the time or place.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by phillyc

What to do then? Do what they did between Perth and Mandurah. Build a new expressway with the railway down the middle.

Yes, but:

Originally Posted by Paxton

The M2 is a bigger problem in itself. Like most roads built in the last 20 or so years, it was built with two lanes in either direction. There is no scope to expand the road as there is no land.

Exact same problem with the Kwinana Freeway. There is no land either side for widening. Some retard in his or her infinite wisdom decided to allow the land either side of the freeway to be sold off for housing and now you have subdivisions with their estate walls backing onto the freeway!! Sounds like an exact replica of what you have there with your M2 etc. It's the old 6 P's slogan: Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance.

Having the train whizz by at 130km/h looks cool but the whole deal has been put together with all the foresight of a goldfish as 1) they haven't built enough car parking at the train stations to cope with demand 2) they don't have enough railcars to meet demand 3) there are no regional or neighbourhood bus stations to feed into these train stations on the spinal freeway.

Sounds like Greater Sydney is facing the same growing pains as we are here, but on a larger scale and there's been no accounting for growth. Transport solutions need to be considered as part of a whole 'system' analysis of alleviating congestion. If this M3 freeway is the only real road to get from point to point north of Sydney, they need to consider link bypasses in some stretches.

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Deleted. Neither the time or place.

Don't be shy, as an ex Sydney sider I welcome your views. I spent many a night on the Putty Road. I can still remember a 6 hour drive to Newcastle on the old Pacific Highway.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Don't be shy, as an ex Sydney sider I welcome your views. I spent many a night on the Putty Road. I can still remember a 6 hour drive to Newcastle on the old Pacific Highway.

Road_Warrior quoted a portion of it.

My main point was that, after sixteen years of neglect from Carr/Iemma/Rees/Kennely, we are in this situation that we're in, and nothing will be done quickly.

The M2, Lane Cove Tunnel, Harbour Tunnel, Eastern Distributor, are all two lanes, with no scope for widening. We have no arterial connections from the M7 to the F3, which we sorely need. NSW, and Sydney needs some serious money spent on their roads. Public transport is all well and good, but the roads are crumbling, and money is needed.

The biggest problem with our toll roads is that, as a Private Company built them, where is their requirement to i) include heavy rail*, and ii)build them to a future capacity requirement, not today's.

Sydney has outgrown the F3. It needs another road north. It can not rely on one road, because when there is an incident, such as this one, it turns into a car park. Discretion needs to be given to the Highway Patrol officers that patrol the F3 to open the Contraflow, without speaking to the RTA. The quicker the Contraflow opens, the quicker traffic moves.

*In most NSW PPP Roads (i.e - all of the Highways), there is a clause in the contract disallowing the Government from building heavy rail, usually for the length of the PPP. That is something I am livid about, and something the Labor government ******.

[banarcus]

We were stuck in the traffic, in fact, the truck about 200m from and we watched as other drivers pulled out the truck driver from his vehicle. Thank God it was a petrol tanker is all I can say. My wife was caught in the traffic farce last year when the F3 turned into the worlds longest carpark and got home in the Hunter Valley about midnight. The wait this time for us was only two and a bit hours with the help of the contraflow system. The accident today closed all three northbound lanes although lane three was closed due to earlier roadworks and happened to help triple 000 guys to the scene much quicker.

What the F3 and its overcrowding highlights is that Sydney has overgrown itself and the only way around this is to stop growth in its basin and metropolitan surrounds and have government encourage growth elsewhere in the state. Newcastle has potential for opening up its port for bulk goods other than coal and this would take many trucks off overcrowded roads.

A dedicated freight railway from Melbourne following the Newell to Brisbane or further up to Townsville would also take many trucks away.

[wulos]

Way to misreport the true facts...
For those that are interested, try some of the following...
Truck accident occured around 2-2.30pm. Initially reported as being NORTH of the Hawkesbury river. Traffic reports claim truck is on fire, with all 3 northbound lanes closed at Hawkesbury river. Traffic being diverted off onto old pac hwy.
Follow up report not for another 30 minutes (an indicent involving a major arterial road especially near peak hours, I woulda thought would warrant a bit more frequent updates. And accurate ones at that). In that time I was a part of the great north parking lot (yet again) up near the Berowra off ramp. At least by this time the diversions were in place directing cars off onto the old pac.
Slow old trip up old pac averaging 15-20kph(slow but still moving for us at least). Just north of Cowan railway station, where you can see the F3, I noticed 3 lanes of northbound traffic all at a complete standstill. Report on radio claims truck accident, still north of Hawkesbury, with truck on fire, & police evacuating 100's of motorists, following fears of fire spreading.
Further down road (where old pac goes over F3) old pac picks up to 60kph(speed limit) and traffic on F3 as far as eye can see in both directions - no sign of any smoke...
Cross Hawkesbury River on old Brooklyn Bridge. Plenty of disco lights in the mirror up near the safety ramp? SOUTH of the Hawkesbury. Up at the next interchange I got back on to the F3, for prob one of the clearest drives home Ive had at that time of the day. Southbound lanes closed at Hawkesbury - I would assume they were putting contraflow into operation.

Without pointing any fingers(I've prob done that with the above observations anyways) I think that the handling of information surrounding major incidents could do with a bit of refinement. Lack of timely & reliable info may have helped keep people from getting onto the end of an already big queue, possibly? helping to make the 'authorities' job that much easier...

[wulos]

Above comment aimed at media - who could / should have been given accurate information.
The RTA 'sms' alert system didn't help either - I didn't receive any notification til AFTER I had rejoined the freeway past the accident site.

[sneaky]

and for anyone that was sent up the highway through hornsby/asquith on the afternoon and was swearing about the 2 idiots working on the powerlines and blocking one lane of the highway... well you could have stopped and said hello


the RTA was very quick in telling us to hurry up and get the hell off the road

[StrokedXT]

Blame the truckie, he was told smoke was coming from under the truck about 20 minutes before it happened.

He said it was steam....

[Simple6]

I still took the old pacific hwy at 9pm last night because I didnt want to chance it. It paid off too although the traffic was only stopping when you cross the bridge over the freeway.

I would love the idea of a road the comes north off the top bend of the M7 and heads straight up to newcastle. It would mean the M2 was really only used for cars travelling to the city or up to Hornsby via Pennant Hills Rd. Then add a rail line to it and you have a dedicated goods rail line as well. It would also mean the F3 was really only used by traffic coming off Pacific Hwy from the City.

Ah dreams ay?